J13 errata

[FrankH.]

I cannot follow the discussion here. Apparent to me all the rule change does is require berserk units and/or weapons subject to ammunition shortage to FG with any Good Order units in the same location. Prior to the change berserk units and/or weapons subject to ammunition shortage were not thusly required to FG, and this may have been considered either too much of an advantage, or simply inconsistent, or an obvious loophole.

 

[FrankH.]

A Berserk squad in a hex with other Good Order infantry can now firegroup in Dfire.

They cannot fire seperately at the same target from this errata forward.

When you wrote "can" I think you meant "must".

 

[Wayne]

I cannot follow the discussion here

W/out getting into the weeds...

...there was a (near invisible) problem w/A7.55.

J13 errata gave a solution which (in the eASLRB_v2.03 -> _v20.4 update) was =not= implemented when it could have been.

Instead, the _v2.04 update implemented a better solution (one which addressed the problem but, by leaving in, "Good Order," w/fewer side-effects).

=-=-=

In sum, the unnecessary J13 A7.55 deletion-by-erratum of "Good Order" has not been implemented.

Instead, text was only added to A7.55 as highlighted below:

A7.55 MANDATORY FG: If Good Order units/weapons capable of forming a FG with each other in the same Location are going to fire at the same target (i.e., at both the same Location and the same unit and the same “simultaneous” [8.1] MF/MP expenditure; see D3.5) during the same phase they must form a FG [EXC: Fire Lane; 9.22]; they may not attack separately except with ordnance/FT/DC or the subsequent shots of multiple ROF weapons (9.2).

This moment, being the more recent verbiage, the above is the Official rule, so, ignore the J13 directive to delete "Good Order."

=-=-=

[Given the evolution, I expect the J13 erratum for A7.55 to be rescinded and an erratum published to bring about the eASLRB_v2.04 A7.55 text above instead.]

 

[Jwil2020]

A collateral benefit from this thread is that I found out the eASLRB got updated to 2.04. I missed that somehow. Downloaded the update last night and now my ASL universe is back in balance.

 

[Larry]

What is the difference between ver. 2.03 and 2.04 for A7.55? Unless MMP says that it has retracted the J13 errata, I don't think that we can count this as resolved.

 

[DVexile]

What is the difference between ver. 2.03 and 2.04 for A7.55? Unless MMP says that it has retracted the J13 errata, I don't think that we can count this as resolved.

2.03:
If Good Order units/weapons in the same Location are going to fire at the same target

2.04:
If Good Order units/weapons capable of forming a FG with each other in the same Location are going to fire at the same target

J13:
If units/weapons capable of forming a FG with each other in the same Location are going to fire at the same target

To match the J13 errata they’d need to delete “Good Order” in 2.05. Alternatively they could issue a J14 errata to put the Good Order back in.

 

[Larry]

So the net change deals with the vehicle problem. A squad under a tank were good order units/weapons in the same location firing at the same target. Now that are exempt from mandatory FG because they are not capable of forming a FG. We knew that.

What is left in place is the proposition that good order units have less fire discipline than non-good order units. You could make a case for the ammo shortage. But not so much for the far more common occurrence of a berserk unit with a MG firing IFP and SW separately at the same moving unit on the same MF expenditure. The berserker is out of control. We don't get to pick a rational movement path, we should not have ultimate and enhanced fire discipline control over the shot choices of that unit. I get Wayne's ammo shortage issue. Applied to zerkers, I don't get it.

Some indication from MMP that 2.04 has overridden J13 or that 2.04 is an editing error -- one of those is needed. Players that have the hardbound ASLRB and get the Journal but do not have the eASLRB are now playing with a different rules set. (Played someone recently that owns a ver. 2 RB but was reading from a ver. 1 rulebook to me at a tournament, not good).

 

[DVexile]

The eASLRB has been corrected and the new version (2.05) is available for download.

 

[Stewart]

The errata worsens ASL ammo shortage, simulates ammo-discipline idiocy, and skews against Partisan OBs in existing scenarios. Why do that?

[Original rule was elegant genius. I argued against this "correction." Mission fail on my part.]

The only reason for the original exemption of ammo-short MG from Mandatory FG was precisely to model how necessary ammo discipline was as a tactic. When troops know they're short, they do not operate as usual. This is obvious.

Prior verbiage allowed players the option to be intelligent w/their limited-life MGs. The changed verbiage mandates Fight Stupid.

The change is a blunder. The game is made worse owing to it. This is obvious.

Dense.

same thing with Berzerk units in your hex.
Someone didn't like the rule being used against them this way...but yet, that has been what the rule was saying for 40yrs.
I agree 100%. If you are under ammo shortage, you aren't going to fire at every single target, but be far more selective.

The naysayers say it breaks games...the same ones that we've had been playing, again for 40yrs.
Yet Ammo shortage is a rare rule, but F@#4 it...lets drive our valuable tank to freeze you with impunity so we can mob you...ROFL.

 

[Stewart]

So the net change deals with the vehicle problem. A squad under a tank were good order units/weapons in the same location firing at the same target. Now that are exempt from mandatory FG because they are not capable of forming a FG. We knew that.

The rules already addressed this issue in Chap D. It's there in black and white. This change was unnecessary. Why can't combine our FP with aircraft in the same hex, the rules state this isn't allowed... etc.
It's to stop the Ammo shortage "hack". Again, the wrong person got hosed by it somewhere.

 

[Stewart]

A Berserk squad in a hex with other Good Order infantry can now firegroup in Dfire.

They cannot fire seperately at the same target from this errata forward.

They could DF with GO inf as the game stands, just not Multi location.

 

[Stewart]

W/out getting into the weeds...

That makes sense