It will continue to happen until it is stopped

Brian W

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In a way, President Obama is to blame. He should have made good on threats to Russia. I think we should rightfully move militarily against them if they are caught subverting our election again. And I mean real war to remove Putin and place him on trial if possible. If that risks or causes a nuclear exchange, so be it. If my country is to be destroyed by Putin's attacks, then Russia must be destroyed, too.

This Florida senator will be on ‘60 Minutes’ talking about Russian hacking:
Sen. Annette Taddeo was one of several Democrats across the country who fell victim to the hacks.


“You know, I’ve been told by a lot of people, ‘You should stop talking about this. It’s really not good for you politically to remind people that you lost,’" Taddeo told the show. "But I refuse to stop talking about it. Because, again, if it can happen to me, it can happen to anyone. And it didn’t happen to me: It happened to our democracy.”
In 2016, Russian government officials using the pseudonym Guccifer 2.0 stole thousands of pages of documents from the Democratic Congressional Campaign Committee and released them online. The committee works to elect Democrats to Congress, efforts that include vetting them for potential attacks by their opponents.
The information included Taddeo’s secret internal strategy plan for her 2016 Democratic primary congressional race against former U.S. Rep. Joe Garcia, and they stated that Taddeo had “proven to be a somewhat poor fund-raiser,” according to the New York Times.
The documents also included damaging information about Garcia, including that he was apparently caught on C-Span “picking his earwax and seemingly eating it, and the video made the rounds on the internet,” according to the Times.
But Taddeo, who lost to Garcia, criticized him for using the information.
“My opponent Joe Garcia showed up at that debate with a printout of all the documents,” Taddeo said, according to a preview of Sunday’s episode. “We’ve seen a lot [in Southern Florida.] But this was a foreign government. This was so much bigger.”
Garcia narrowly defeated Taddeo but lost to incumbent Republican Rep. Carlos Curbelo.
Taddeo wasn’t the only victim of the hacking. The stolen documents included internal opposition research into former Democratic Congresswoman Gwen Graham. While running for governor in 2018, she joked about how little “dirt” was in the documents.
The hacking of the DCCC was part of a larger effort to damage Democrats and help elect Donald Trump in 2016, according to Special Counsel Robert Mueller, who last year charged 12 Russian military officials with engaging in cyber operations.
The hackers also stole documents from Hillary Clinton’s campaign and the Democratic National Committee. The stolen emails eventually forced U.S. Rep. Debbie Wasserman Schultz to step down as the committee’s chairwoman.
 

Chas

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Obama's weak foreign policy aside, this is very unfair to him.

BLUF: The Ukraine (and others) not worth going to war over, let alone nuclear war.

The problem didn't start with Obama. Just in recent history as some examples:

-IIRC something happened in Georgia and Bush did little about it
-Russians assisted the Iraqis in 2003 with battle plans, intelligence, etc
-Ironically Obama did let Russia invade and annex parts of the Ukraine with no action or military aid. I support Obama on this. Ukraine really has no strategic significance for us, unless we want to start talking about pipelines and impact on the world's economy.
-The Russians have been involved in our elections for decades, and the short range view is what is scary.

The Russians want to feed chaos and distrust in our governmental system. Absolute success at this point. The left media continues to feed the narrative, exactly what the Russians want. The scary part is the false focus that the Russians supported Trump, and that this was the only election they ever got involved in. Pushing back on this needs to be a bi-partisan, American thing, if we truly desire to mitigate their election influence.
 

Brian W

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Aside from the State Department, Trump will probably do more harm to the military than anything else.

Navy Secretary forced out after Trump's war crimes intervention causes division and chaos in military

In an extraordinary move, the Pentagon chief "fired" the Navy secretary Sunday for going outside his chain of command by proposing a "secret agreement with the White House," according to a senior defense official.
The agreement that led to Navy Secretary Richard Spencer's forced resignation involved the case of Navy SEAL Eddie Gallagher, one of three service members facing war crimes allegations whose cases have caused unprecedented tension between the Pentagon and President Donald Trump.
Spencer had appeared to be seeking a way to resolve a standoff between the Pentagon and White House over Gallagher's case, but competing narratives that emerged in the chaotic hours after Spencer's dismissal suggest the depth of the upheaval, disconnection and discord that remains.
Trump suggested on Twitter that Spencer's dismissal had to do with cost overruns and the way Gallagher had been treated by the Navy. Defense Secretary Mark Esper said he asked Spencer to resign because he had lost "trust and confidence in him regarding his lack of candor," according to a Pentagon spokesman.
And Spencer pointed squarely to the President, suggesting that Trump was undermining the "key principle of good order and discipline" of the US military by intervening in Gallagher's case.
"I cannot in good conscience obey an order that I believe violates the sacred oath I took in the presence of my family, my flag and my faith to support and defend the Constitution of the United States," Spencer wrote in his letter to the President acknowledging his termination.
Gallagher had been convicted of bringing discredit to the armed services after posing next to a dead ISIS fighter's body, which is against regulations. He was demoted for that offense and acquitted of a separate murder charge. After Trump reversed Gallagher's demotion a week ago, military officials launched a formal review to determine if Gallagher was fit to serve, which is protocol after a conviction. That review was expected to lead to his expulsion.
 

RandyT0001

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The Russians want to feed chaos and distrust in our governmental system.
And they feed that chaos and distrust into both parties', Republican and Democrat, members with triggers, code, etc. words that evoke an emotional response for Putin's purposes. The right, through Fox News, feeds the counter narrative, that the Russians want also, because without the counter narrative there would be less conflict and more cooperation to make the government work for people as constituted. Americans need their working government to pass laws that limit monetary influences upon elections. (Might have to amend the constitution also.) That seems to be an avenue foreign powers will exploit against us. We need candidates, Republican and Democrat, that campaign on cooperation and compromise and do so to fix our country's biggest problems.
 

Brian W

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A Republican senator just completely denied the reality of 2016 election meddling

Louisiana Republican Sen. John Kennedy was asked a simple question by Fox News' Chris Wallace on Sunday: "Who do you believe was responsible for hacking the [Democratic National Committee] and Clinton campaign computers, their emails. Was it Russia or Ukraine?"
Here's what Kennedy said in response: "I don't know. Nor do you. Nor do any of us."
That is simply not true. False. And what's worse is Kennedy, of course, knows that. Because he has been residing on planet Earth for the last three years. And, because of that, Kennedy knows four things:
1) The intelligence community concluded in early 2017 that Russia sought to interfere in the 2016 election to help President Donald Trump and hurt Hillary Clinton
2) The Senate Intelligence Committee -- chaired by Republican North Carolina Sen. Richard Burr -- affirmed that finding
3) The Mueller Report, almost two years in the making, reaffirmed Russia's role and goals
4) Robert Mueller himself, in sworn testimony on Capitol Hill this summer, said this: "The Russian government interfered in our election in sweeping and systematic fashion." When confronted by Wallace with just one of those facts -- that the intelligence community has made clear it was Russia that hacked the DNC server and Clinton campaign emails and then pushed what they found to the website WikiLeaks -- Kennedy responded: "Right. But it could also be Ukraine."
Let's be clear here: NO, IT COULDN'T.
This yeah-but-Ukraine defense is hung on a series of half-truths and thinly reported pieces that suggest that there were elements within Ukraine that didn't want Trump to win. Just as a thought experiment, let's grant that that supposition is true. It still isn't anything like the concerted, deep and targeted misinformation campaign run by the Russians to help Trump and hurt Clinton. Nothing like it. Like, not in the same universe.
Kennedy isn't dumb. He knows what he is saying is like looking at two snowflakes and 20 inches of snow and saying they are the same thing. They're not. And no matter how many times you say they are the same, it doesn't change the actual proven facts. . . .
We're now just 344 days from the November 2020 election. And we still have top Republican officials -- from the President to members of the Senate and the House -- debating who actually ran a sophisticated interference operation in the 2016 campaign. That's should worry us all.
 

RandyT0001

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Conflict is ratings and ratings is money. -- jim
Control the money and control the conflict, which is what Putin is doing to both sides. Putin is driving both sides, doing his best to maneuver his opponent, the United States, to falter from within. Doing something to counter his maneuver, division, by actively advocating and voting for candidates that compromise to fulfill the hundreds of benefits our government was constituted to do.
 

DWPetros

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Getting into a hot war with Russia could end civilization as we know it. That's about as big of an existential threat as there is.

Russian interference with our already interfered election process* falls about 359 degrees to the south of the above threat.

There is little to no evidence that the Russians actually effected our previous elections, though of course we know they tried.

However, there is actual evidence that the US has successfully effected Russian elections in the past:

there are other sources.

“We’ve been doing this kind of thing since the C.I.A. was created in 1947,” said Mr. Johnson, now at the University of Georgia. “We’ve used posters, pamphlets, mailers, banners — you name it. We’ve planted false information in foreign newspapers. We’ve used what the British call ‘King George’s cavalry’: suitcases of cash.”

Now don't get me wrong, I'm not saying we're the 'bad guys' and the Russians the 'good guys' (please), but just pointing out that the US did this too, and not just in Russia. There's little reason to imagine we're still not doing it. This is what intelligence agencies all around the world do habitually.

*Could the Russian influence peddling be worse than that which has been conducted domestically? Anyone hear of the Koch Brothers? ALEC? Sheldon Adelson? C'mon.
 

Brian W

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The difference is, I don't care what we do to other countries (most Americans don't) I care what happens to my country.
 

DWPetros

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The difference is, I don't care what we do to other countries (most Americans don't) I care what happens to my country.
Aside from the obvious hypocrisy of the comment, what a depressing comment it is. It pretty well summarizes why things have gone to hell in a handbag, I suppose. I think the adage - 'what goes around comes around' sums it up in terms of what happens when you don't care about others.

If we actually cared about other people and countries (and countries are nothing more than a collection of people), possibly they'd care more about us. Possibly, many would emulate the example. I think this was the reason why America was in the past held up as the model for a good society. No more. How far we've fallen..
 
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Paul M. Weir

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When the extent of Russian efforts in 2016 became apparent I responded to someone's complaint (Dr. Zaius?) with a tart "Welcome to the rest of the world!". Maybe getting a dose of your own medicine might help stay your hands in the future.
 

Brian W

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Aside from the obvious hypocrisy of the comment, what a depressing comment it is. It pretty well summarizes why things have gone to hell in a handbag, I suppose. I think the adage - 'what goes around comes around' sums it up in terms of what happens when you don't care about others.
This from the person that wants to protect US workers from foreign competition. If you want to help the rest of the world, absolutely free trade would do it. If that means that all our jobs get outsourced, it's a small price to pay, right?
Maybe getting a dose of your own medicine might help stay your hands in the future.
Or maybe we should react with extreme violence to make sure others stay their hands in the future.
 

Sparafucil3

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Aside from the obvious hypocrisy of the comment, what a depressing comment it is. It pretty well summarizes why things have gone to hell in a handbag, I suppose. I think the adage - 'what goes around comes around' sums it up in terms of what happens when you don't care about others.
I shouldn't care more than the citizens of the country do. Absent that, I shouldn't care more than the citizens of that continent do. Imagine if we cared less and spent more money on social services in our own country. -- jim
 
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