Israel could become pariah state, warns report

nemo

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In The Guardian tonight. Interesting to see how some Israeli official circles see their future relation with the EU. I abbreviated the quote as the article is quite long.
Israel could become pariah state, warns report

Agencies
Thursday October 14, 2004

Israel is set on a collision course with the EU and could turn into a pariah state, on a par with South Africa during the apartheid years, if the conflict with the Palestinians is not resolved, Israel's foreign ministry has warned. In a confidential 10-year forecast obtained by the Associated Press, the ministry's Centre for Political Research said the EU is pushing to become a major global player in the next decade, and that as a result the US, Israel's main ally, could lose international influence. If the 25-member EU overcomes internal divisions and speaks in one voice, its global influence would grow considerably, and be more in line with its powerful economy, analysts wrote. Europe is Israel's major trading partner.

Up to now, Europe has divided on major foreign policy issues, such as the war in Iraq. A more united and influential Europe would likely demand greater Israeli compliance with international conventions and could try to limit Israel's freedom of action in its conflict with the Palestinians, the document said. Israel might also have to pay a price for growing competition between the EU and the US. Israel-EU relations have long been shaky, and Israeli foreign minister Silvan Shalom has repeatedly warned that Israel has to work to strengthen ties with Europe. However, Israel also accuses the Europeans of pro-Palestinian bias, and complains of a growing wave of anti-Semitism in parts of Europe.

EU officials in Brussels said that while the EU and Israel have sound relations in the areas of trade and scientific research, they have very definite differences of opinion over the Palestinians.

"Regarding the Middle East peace process and our relations with Israel and the Palestinians, there is no doubt that the role of the EU has increased," said Christina Gallach, a spokeswoman for EU foreign policy chief Javier Solana.

The EU says Israel's planned withdrawal from the Gaza Strip in 2005 must be followed by major troop withdrawals in the West Bank, and pave the way for Palestinian statehood. "None of this is exactly what the Israelis want to hear, but we have to say it," Ms Gallach said.

She added that the Israeli government wants to broaden the relationship with Europe without giving the EU a bigger role in resolving the Middle East conflict.

The EU's ambassador to Israel, Giancarlo Chevallard wrote on the legation's website that when it comes to the conflict, Israel "tends to keep Europe at arms length and prefers to place all its eggs in the American basket."

According to the Foreign Ministry document, which was written in August, Israel could become increasingly isolated in the coming years if Europe becomes more influential.

"In extreme circumstances, this could put Israel on a collision course with the European Union. Such a collision course holds the risk of Israel losing international legitimacy and could lead to its isolation, in the manner of South Africa," according to the document.

Even if the EU fails to become a major international player, Israel will still become increasingly isolated if it fails to resolve the conflict with the Palestinians, according to the document. The best possible outcome - that the Middle East conflict moves toward solution - would still not put Israel and the European Union on good terms, the document said. "In almost every scenario, there is the potential for friction in Israel-EU relations," the analysts wrote.
[...]
 

Patrocles

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nemo said:
In The Guardian tonight. Interesting to see how some Israeli official circles see their future relation with the EU. I abbreviated the quote as the article is quite long.
Excellent article! thanks for the link. :thumup:
I wish the U.S. would show a littel backbone and get the Israelis and Palestinians to the table!
 

Ivan Rapkinov

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"could become"?

:lol:

I think they misprinted the date on that by about 50 years...
 

LaPalice

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In the future EU could have on Israel the same influence she have on Turkey : by several pressure Europe forced Turkey to change her laws, for example a law on adultery.

Interesting article.

LaPalice.
 

tsar

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LaPalice said:
In the future EU could have on Israel the same influence she have on Turkey : by several pressure Europe forced Turkey to change her laws, for example a law on adultery.

Interesting article.

LaPalice.
I don’t think Israel is going to bend over backwards to try to please the EU. They don’t want membership in the EU, common market or any other European organization enough to bow to your demands.
 

LaPalice

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tsar said:
I don’t think Israel is going to bend over backwards to try to please the EU. They don’t want membership in the EU, common market or any other European organization enough to bow to your demands.
It depends on the power EU will have in the future. EU will certainly have more and more influence in Mediterranean, and could have enough means of pressure to force Israel to do what she want. If I understandthe article, it is what it explains.

LaPalice.
 

tsar

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LaPalice said:
It depends on the power EU will have in the future. EU will certainly have more and more influence in Mediterranean, and could have enough means of pressure to force Israel to do what she want. If I understandthe article, it is what it explains.

LaPalice.
Force?! You’re going to Force someone to do what you want? Isn’t that what you find so offensive about the U.S., Forcing others to do what we want?
 

LaPalice

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tsar said:
Force?! You’re going to Force someone to do what you want? Isn’t that what you find so offensive about the U.S., Forcing others to do what we want?
Well, I simply wanted to say by diplomatic and political pressures. I didn't choose the good word.

LaPalice.
 

tsar

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LaPalice said:
Well, I simply wanted to say by diplomatic and political pressures. I didn't choose the good word.

LaPalice.
Which brings me back to my earlier statement.
“I don’t think Israel is going to bend over backwards to try to please the EU. They don’t want membership in the EU, common market or any other European organization enough to bow to your demands”
 

Kraut

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tsar said:
Which brings me back to my earlier statement.
?I don?t think Israel is going to bend over backwards to try to please the EU. They don?t want membership in the EU, common market or any other European organization enough to bow to your demands?
Israel does a good portion of its trade with the EU, that could be a good argument to convince them to rethink some of their positions.
 

tsar

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Kraut said:
Israel does a good portion of its trade with the EU, that could be a good argument to convince them to rethink some of their positions.
Not if it threatens their security.
 

Dr Zaius

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I seriously doubt that this concept would be taken very far. The Europeans have not shown the political will to cut off relations even with nations like Saddam Hussein's Iraq, let alone Israel. If this policy were pushed to the extreme it would obviously undermine Israel as a nation and set the EU up as backing Hezbollah and Hamas rather than the only functioning democracy in the whole of the Middle East. They may not like Israel's actions at times, but I give the EU more credit than this article does.

And how would this be orchestrated anyway? it would have to be an EU-only policy as any attempt to pass such a resolution in the UN would be immediately blocked by the US.

I think the US is attempting to solve the Israel-Palestinian crisis. We currently see Arafat as an insurmountable obstacle to any forward progress, thus we're trying to force him out. There is some evidence that our calculated inaction is having a telling effect. Armed groups of Palestinians have shot up Arafat's offices several times and the major groups are becoming bolder and bolder in trying to push him out of power. He can't last all that much longer and when the Palestinians have new leadership I believe the US will spring into action and attempt to use that opportunity to move the peace procress forward.

The article basically implies that the EU will soon attempt to "force" Israel to deal with Arafat on the EU's terms or suffer greivous consequences. It won't work as Israel is far too stubborn for that approach. It will have the opposite effect and would be like someone trying to force the US to negotiate with al Qaeda. Israel rarely even listens to our suggestions any more, they certainly will not pay any attention to the EU.
 

LaPalice

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What I want to say is that EU will maybe have enough power to convince Isreal to do what she asks. You can do it with political, economical... pressure, you don't necessaraly need military force.

LaPalice.
 

nemo

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Don Maddox said:
The article basically implies that the EU will soon attempt to "force" Israel to deal with Arafat on the EU's terms or suffer greivous consequences. It won't work as Israel is far too stubborn for that approach. It will have the opposite effect and would be like someone trying to force the US to negotiate with al Qaeda. Israel rarely even listens to our suggestions any more, they certainly will not pay any attention to the EU.
You may be missing the point. The article simply sums up a prospective report from the Israeli Foreign Affairs ministry, choke full with ifs, could and when. Nothing actual in fact, and I for one have serious doubts about the EU becoming a 'major global player' in the next decade, let alone forcing Israel to deal with Arafat (he'll probably be dead anyway ten years from now). The writer of the report is afraid of ghosts.
 

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Ah, yes. The EU. Powered primarily by France and Germany, two nations with a terrific history of previous relations with Jewish people, most especially Germany. Six million of them brutally murdered, wasn't it? and that was just the official count. Yep - I can sure see where Israel would want closer ties with the EU.

Isn't it interesting how everyone blames the Israeli's for the terror bombings, the human suicide bombers, the jihad attitudes and the intransigence of the Palestinans. Why, I wonder every single time I read this sort of thing, isn't the EU or anybody else pressuring the Palestinians? Hello? It used to require two sides to reach an agreement - has that changed recently? And who is financing the financial windfall for every family that produces a suicide bomber? Why Palestine, of course, using monies specifically provided for that purpose by their Arab brethren in the neighboring nations. How thoughtful of them. What a wonderful way to seek peace. Almost brings tears to my eyes...

I recall very clearly not too long ago that Israel was willing to make major concessions in order to get the peace process underway, and Palestine said "No". Well, oops! We bad. Political process is also called "give and take" - no room for a Palestine that just wants to take it all.

The sorry truth, largely obscured by the media and the politicians, is that none of the rest of the Arab nations want anything to do with Palestine at all, considering them too unstable and politically dangerous. But their religion requires them to help. Oh, gee...must have overlooked that part while re-reading the section on killing Americans as a holy goal. Tricky business, this Islamic religion. Got to pay close attention to the "kill this...don't kill that" parts.

Fact is, the other Arab nations could have each donated a little land and made a brand new home for the Palestinians anytime they wanted to. Problem is, they didn't want to and still don't. These are the same Arab nations whose publicly sworn goal is and always has been the complete genocide of the Jewish people, so having peace doesn't quite fit their agenda, and it never will. However, having the Palestinians constantly killing Jews is part of their daily fixed agenda, and always will be. Which is why they send so much money and aid to Palestine. I wonder how many of us remember that a large per centage of Israeli's are Arabs? Flexible little devil, that Qu'oran, isn't it? Only recognizes Palestinians and terror bombers, but death to Arabs who live on the other side of an invisible line. Personally, I'm starting to wonder if Mohammed didn't spend a little too much time out under the desert sun. Because if this was the intent of his god, then something is definitely hayire.

So for those who wish America would show a little backbone, so do I. For starters, it's none of our business how Israel deals with domestic terrorism. Why not? Because we do exactly the same thing. We just invaded and destroyed the governments and infrastructures of two Arab nations we felt were a threat to us. What else are we doing in Afghanistan and Iraq? But somebody wants us to take the moral high ground when Israel goes after murderers who blow up school buses, restuarants and theaters? What high ground?

Want America to show a little backbone? Hands off Israel. Without us sitting on their shoulders all the time, they'll solve the problem the same way we "solved" Afghanistan and Iraq.

Peace in the Middle East! Plant a little Bush in the desert, and watch love grow.

Now is that catchy or what?
 
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nemo

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MountainMan said:
Ah, yes. The EU. Powered primarily by France and Germany, two nations with a terrific history of previous relations with Jewish people, most especially Germany. Six million of them brutally murdered, wasn't it? and that was just the official count. Yep - I can sure see where Israel would want closer ties with the EU.
Lol, here we are again, the arch-evil French and Germans ruling the EU behind the scenes to redeem their lost grandeur.

What a sorry joke.

If you really believe this, I may point to your attention the fact that the EU is now made of twenty-five countries and that for sure no one of the other twenty-three would have gladly entered a Franco-German dominion. What could have been true when we were six, nine or ten wasn't true anymore at fifteen, let alone twenty-five.

And yes, we have very little to be proud about what happened during WW2 - yet, the very fact that the EU exists is a clear sign that we've learned from the past and hopefully will not ever go through this again.
 

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I would have to agree MountainMan on this one. I walked away from the little support I had for Palestine when Arafat walked away from the 97% solution offered by Berak (?). The hypocracy of the liberals in the west is beyond mind numbing. Perhaps it is time for Israel to pull out of most of the West Bank,...but that won't make a bit of differnce until the Arab nations recognize Israel's right to exist and abandon terroism as a tool.
 

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Oh please! The Isrealis have become dispicable in their handling of the Palestinian affair! Simply put, the Israeli incursions and Palestinian rocket attacks will not stop until someone like the U.S. steps in.

The Isrealis and UN are to blame for this mess (going on ~55 years?!) and they can't solve the associated problems. Only the U.S. can accomplish peace in the area.
 

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Patrocles said:
The Isrealis and UN are to blame for this mess (going on ~55 years?!) and they can't solve the associated problems. Only the U.S. can accomplish peace in the area.
Well, I'm going to agree with those who are saying: the Palestinians must be willing to seek peace -- and the last time that was seriously attempted, their leaders (not just Yasser) muffed it up and badly. Even the greatest military force of all time (America) won't be able to impose a peace on Israel if the Palestinian leadership gets serious about peace -- and the Arab states & rich families that support continued Palestinian terror.
 

Patrocles

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Richa333 said:
Well, I'm going to agree with those who are saying: the Palestinians must be willing to seek peace -- and the last time that was seriously attempted, their leaders (not just Yasser) muffed it up and badly. Even the greatest military force of all time (America) won't be able to impose a peace on Israel if the Palestinian leadership gets serious about peace -- and the Arab states & rich families that support continued Palestinian terror.
Yeah, I read a quick review of Arafat, and he is a prick (pardon my language).
What options are available? bump Arafat?(that didn't work the first time!). How old is Arafat? He is getting up there in years. Are there moderate peace-seekers behind Arafat that can rise to power once he is gone?

Now i'm off to read some info on Israel's issues...
cheers
 
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