Is Kerry fit to be a War Time President?

Andrey

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Originally posted by tsar


Oh my, were do I begin? Lets start with ‘Do Russian bombers bomb other countries now?’ Yes. One word Chechnya, you point to a thread about the Chechnian bombing of the Moscow subway. Maybe if Russia weren’t in Chechnya they wouldn’t bomb you. Isn’t that the argument you use with the U.S? If we leave other countries alone they will like us? Maybe the Chechnian’s would like you if you were not in their country.
Chechnya is own territory of Russia. Iraq is independent state.
Russia has right to make order in its own territory. USA made military invasion in independent state without Declaration of War. It is worse that Vietnam and Afghanistan, foreign troops were in these countries in result of request of governments of these countries.

It is main difference between Chechnya and Iraq.

Russian bombers do not bomb other countries. Russian bombers even do not bomb Chechnya now.

Yes, during First Chechen Campaign Russian bombers and artillery hitted many civilian objects (like US do now in Iraq). Yes, some amount of Chechens fought against Russia because Russian bombers and artillery fought their house and killed their relatives.

This experience was used during Second Chechen Campaign and now. We uses principle that main factor is to win the sympathy of local civilians. In the end we prefer to make to use peaceful methods for decision of Chechen problem (excluding actions against real bandits), Chechen is leader of Chechnya now (he fought against Russia during First Chechen Campaign), local police contains local Chechens, troops amount is decreasing constantly, refugees return in home places.

If you really want to know about Chechen War read data about it, I gave link earlier.

We will not go out from Chechnya more because we went out from Chechnya in 1996 and Chechen bandits invaded in Russia in 1999.

If US will go away from Iraq Iraq has no possibility to invade in America.

As for my statement ‘would changing Russian policy make a better image in the minds of other people and decrees the amount of enemies and threats to Russia?’ I am not living in the past. I get my information from a private intelligence service. Jane’s Intelligence Digest. The same people that put out Jane’s all the worlds’ aircraft. You will be able to check my information at www.janes.com.
The headline in their 12-march 2004 issue was Lithuania Destabilized by Russia.
Why is Russia destabilizing a NATO member? Why are there Russian troops in Moldova? And Georgia?
So questions are
1. Lithuania
2. Moldova
3. Georgia

1. I never heard about destabilizing situation in Lithuania. They made impeachment of president Paksas but Russia is not related to this…

May be, you speak about Latvia? In Latvia Russians are 30% (digit is not exact it is from my memory) of population but local government constantly violated rights of local Russian population. Reason of last events was that local government ordered to teach all schoolchildren in Latvian language (not less 60% of time). Local Russian schoolchildren do not want to learn in Latvian language and demand from government to cancel this law.

2. Moldova. In 1993 there was large conflict in Moldova between Moldova and Pridnestrovskaya Republic, it was real war. Russian general Lebed’, commander of Russian troops here, which remained from USSR time, stopped this war with using of force, he ordered for troops to go out in field between opposite sides and forced them to cease fire. Russian troops in Moldova are guarantor of peace in this region.

Russia wants to remove troops from this place after reliable peace here when both sides of conflict will ask about it.

3. Georgia. I do not know why Russia doesn’t want to remove troops from this country. As I know Russian troops are peacemakers here, they are securing border between Georgia and Abkhazia from military actions (there was real war here in 1993).

[ In January your defense minister, Sergei Ivanov, confirmed that 4,500 troops are unlikely to withdrawal from two bases in Georgia by 2014. 10 years after the 2004 deadline agreed to by Boris Yeltsin in 1999.
If you read serious data about it you have to know how do Russian politicians explain it. I do not believe that they didn’t use any arguments.

But all these 3 points are too small problems (it is even not problems), any country has many such things.

According international polls amount of people who suppose that US is threat for them is much more than amount of people who suppose that Russia is threat for them. And amount of such people is increasing especially in Arabian World. If you are so experienced in international relations you can try to prove that it is not true…

Russia has no large international problems now so I do not see reasons for changing of current Russian policy.
If Americans suppose that situation is OK for America in this question – it is your right to continue your current policy.
 

Aubrey's Pet

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Originally posted by Andrey
May be, you speak about Latvia? In Latvia Russians are 30% (digit is not exact it is from my memory) of population but local government constantly violated rights of local Russian population. Reason of last events was that local government ordered to teach all schoolchildren in Latvian language (not less 60% of time). Local Russian schoolchildren do not want to learn in Latvian language and demand from government to cancel this law.
When in Rome....

If the Russians don't want to learn the Latvian language while they live or reside in Latvia, then perhaps they're living in the wrong country. GO HOME!:crazy:
 

Aubrey's Pet

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Originally posted by Andrey
Russian bombers do not bomb other countries. Russian bombers even do not bomb Chechnya now.

Yes, during First Chechen Campaign Russian bombers and artillery hitted many civilian objects (like US do now in Iraq). Yes, some amount of Chechens fought against Russia because Russian bombers and artillery fought their house and killed their relatives.

This experience was used during Second Chechen Campaign and now. We uses principle that main factor is to win the sympathy of local civilians. In the end we prefer to make to use peaceful methods for decision of Chechen problem (excluding actions against real bandits), Chechen is leader of Chechnya now (he fought against Russia during First Chechen Campaign), local police contains local Chechens, troops amount is decreasing constantly, refugees return in home places.

If you really want to know about Chechen War read data about it, I gave link earlier.

We will not go out from Chechnya more because we went out from Chechnya in 1996 and Chechen bandits invaded in Russia in 1999.

In other words Russia got its butt kicked by the Chechens and people like you want to portray it differently, even though the Chechens won and set their own terms. Russia lost and lost bad.

Chechnya effectively castrated Russia, leaving the big Bear on its knees. :D
 

chrisvalla

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Yeah, the only difference between Chechnya vs. Russia and USA vs. CSA is that the 'right side' won, right?;) Simplifying the issue greatly, it's a region trying to secede and a federal government intent on stopping it... sounds familiar... though I think we would all agree the Russian Union will not fall if Chechnya were to 'get away with it' (though it just might snowball if other republics saw one secede successfully... and that is the Russians fear).

As I recall, the US (and UN) didn't recognize Chechnya as an indendent nation, so technically' speaking, it IS and always has been a internal issue. Civil wars of succession (which is what Chechnya is) are always ugly and unusually brutal by conventional warfare standards and depending on which side you want to win, it's either a domestic issue or an invasion by another country. Both are right, just ask any Suther'ner about the War of Northr'n Aggression.

If any US state tried to secede (again), you think Washington would just let it happen? Oklahoma for Okies... Florida for Retirees... Oregon for the Tree Huggers... it wouldn't happen without a fight. Granted, it wouldn't happen at all (anytime soon) since most Americans can live with being Federal citizens first and State citizens second whereas the Chechens never were Russians except in name and were treated poorly under Stalin.

America has yet to deal with being a 'fallen' giant. The French, British, and Spanish came and went, Japan came and went rather quickly, the Soviets had their high-tide as did the Germans and in the past the Mongols (what's Mongolia now?) Greeks, Egyptians (talk about a slide down the importance chain!), Italians, and Chinese (who are on the way back up I might add)... but America never has slumped (save a brief spat in the 1860s), it's always been a 'rising star', so we don't know what it's like to loose the 'former glory of the empire'. When Pax Americana finally ends I have a feeling we will lash out and not take it very well; just like everyone else has because we will not want to lose 'it' without a fight, militarily or otherwise.

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When in Rome... Americans hardly have ANY room to talk here...
Americans aren't required (or usually even bother) to learn Korean, German, Arabic, Japanese, Thai, Dutch, Italian, Greek, Turkish, Bulgarian, Polish, French, Spanish, Czech, Hungarian, Norwegian, Danish, Russian, Aussie English, or Queen's English so why should Russians be any different? Screaming in English at foreigners is not a universal language. I'm sure there are many non-English speakers asking why Americans who don't learn the language don't just go home as well.

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As for butt-kicking... yeah, they got chewed up and continue to get chewed on... just like we did in Vietnam... what was our spin on that...we got the North to sign a peace treaty, left the South on it's own, and THEY lost THIER war with the North, not us since we had already left. Or was it the government didn't really want to win anyway, so it's not like we lost, we weren't playing to win. Semantics and spin; we did it, they did it, we still do it, they still do it. We have our history books (which are by the way also filled with popular half-truths and lies) and they have theirs.

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We've had more than our fair share of destabilizing countries, we just prefer more subtle methods than direct military intervention. We're hardly the saints we'd like to believe we are. More good than bad usually, but not clean-handed for sure.

I would challenge anyone to find people on here who haven't been brought up with enough Cold War propaganda to write their own history the way they want it; only now are teenagers who grew up without the Cold War hanging over them forming opinions that aren't based on the Beast in the East and the Capitalist Pigs from the West. I think Dr. Sinister is probably the only one excused from this since he can't bother with petty things like nationalism, propaganda, and revisionist history when working on taking over the whole world.;)
 

dannybou

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Gentlemen

I will step in one more time. This time we have some name calling. That will not be tolerated. I will not point any fingers, but I had asked to take some time and cool off. The thread started about whether or not Kerry was fit to be President and it has degenerated into an east vs west ideology clash. Although I do support good old fashion disagreements, this is beginning to desintegrate. I therefore will state again, take some time and pause. Continue the discussion without the name calling or the personal attacks or I will close the thread. Not meant as a hard line approach, but let's bear in mind we have members from all ages reading these threads. :nonono:
 

Andrey

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Originally posted by hellodoggie
Chechnya is Russian territory? Tell that to the Chechens.

And you say Americans are arrogant!
Yes, Chechnya is Russian territory for last 150-200 years.

And you do not recall about American indians when you speak about owner of lands of USA.
 

Andrey

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Originally posted by hellodoggie
When in Rome....

If the Russians don't want to learn the Latvian language while they live or reside in Latvia, then perhaps they're living in the wrong country. GO HOME!:crazy:
It is their land and they do not want go out from their homes.

America is full of emigrants from Mexico who prefer to speak in Spanish. I heard that 80% of Los Angeles population speaks in Spanish.

But nobody speaks in USA that they are not equal citizens of USA like people who speaks in English.

Nobody in America forces them to study only English in school.
 

Andrey

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Originally posted by hellodoggie
In other words Russia got its butt kicked by the Chechens and people like you want to portray it differently, even though the Chechens won and set their own terms. Russia lost and lost bad.

Chechnya effectively castrated Russia, leaving the big Bear on its knees. :D
Russia won Chechen war.

Most part of Chechens supported Russian government.

Current leader of Chechnya is our former enemy who became our friend.
 

tsar

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Okay dannybou I was just answering Andrey's question, I didn't mean to kick off the arguments again. I'm out of this thread.
 

Geeky Nerd

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I'm not for Kerry and I'm not for Bush but if Kerry wins I think he will do his very best to prosecute America's wars as best he could, as any other sane POTUS would.


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I know of no more encouraging fact than the unquestioned ability of a man to elevate his life by conscious endeavor.
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