Is a hex adjacent to itself?

von Marwitz

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... it wouldn't make much sense (IMO) that such a unit would surrender to an enemy unit in an ADJACENT Location, but not to an enemy unit in the same Location.
This.

On top of that, we do have a Q&A. So I don't really know what this fuss is all about. For me this makes the intent of the rule and of the publisher pretty obvious.

von Marwitz
 

Robin Reeve

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Are you sure that all mentions of ADJACENT imply "or in the same Location" and of adjacent imply "or in the same hex"?

I am ready to adapt to that idea if it proves right, but there would need some checking of the full corpus of the rules to see if that idea holds water in all cases.
Equating two Locations to one can possibly generate strange applications of the rules.

One problem is the definitions of adjacent/ADJACENT, which - unless one is a mathematician specialized in geometry concepts - seem to say that an element is not adjacent to itself.

Should one rewrite the definitions of ADJACENT and adjacent, as they are too restrictive and thus wrong?

ADJACENT
Original wording : "Locations [and units in them] are considered ADJACENT if any Infantry unit in one Location could conceivably—ignoring any enemy presence—advance into the other during the APh and a LOS exists between the two Locations"

Modified : "Locations or a Location [and units in them] are or is considered ADJACENT if any Infantry unit in one Location could conceivably—ignoring any enemy presence—advance (or not advance if in the same Location) into the other during the APh and a LOS exists between the two Locations or the single ADJACENT to itself Location."

adjacent
Original wording: "hexes are considered adjacent if they share a common hexside"

Modified: "hexes or a hex are or is considered adjacent if they share or it has a common hexside"

Strange questions could be developed, if a hex is adjacent to itself.
For an example, a unit could move to its own hex (not changing levels or Locations within it), spending the appropriate MF/MP.
Which could be nice to avoid the problem of having to spend delay MP while stopped (a vehicle could be declared to move on and on to the "adjacent" hex which it is in).

I am far from being a rules expert - that is common knowledge ! ;)
I am simply trying to understand them and I am discovering new aspects constantly.

Sorry if that rings as "making fuss".
In my case, it is about making sense.
Smarter people see no problem.
I still need better means to grasp the notions evoked.
 
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Gordon

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Why is my brain conjuring up images of tesseracts?
 

klasmalmstrom

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Are you sure that all mentions of ADJACENT imply "or in the same Location" and of adjacent imply "or in the same hex"?
I don't think "adjacent" means or implies "adjacent or in the same hex". Which is why you'll see set up instructions like these on official scenarios: "set up on/adjacent-to hexes 5CC8, 5BB8, and/or 3BB6"

But I do think so a bit more with regards to ADJACENT, but it would be interesting to know the origins of the Q&A - i.e., in what context/situation was it asked.
 

Robin Reeve

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Our mathematcians logically will have to hold the idea that a hex is adjacent to itself as much as a Location is.
That is, if the rules follow the mathematical idea of adjacency...
 

MajorDomo

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The mathematical/metaphysical discussions about adjacent and the more restrictive ADJACENT are red meat to gamesquad posters.

However, Perry Sez about a unit being ADJACENT to itself helps us play the game.

There are several instances where without the Perry Sez there are problems. I have come across several of these during the play of ASL scenarios. I am sure that the combined gestalt of this post can list 7 or so quickly.

Surrender to a same location unit was listed above, another is a Japanese unit with DC placing it on a same location concealed enemy unit.

So I just accept that a unit is adjacent and ADJACENT to its own location as it causes fewer problems.

Rich
 

djohannsen

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Our mathematcians logically will have to hold the idea that a hex is adjacent to itself as much as a Location is.
That is, if the rules follow the mathematical idea of adjacency...
Please, I am not insisting on any interpretation, so there is no reason to be smug and condescending. In fact, I will admit that allowing a hex to be adjacent to itself is probably contrary to the original intent. I was simply pointing out that the wording of the definition does not preclude the interpretation that a hex is adjacent to itself.
 

Robin Reeve

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I am not smug nor condescending.
Sorry if my posts came out to you that way.
You invoked mathematical notions in support of the idea expressed by a poster who stated that a hex can be adjacent to itself.
I simply underline that there seems to be a conflict between that argument and the rules of ASL. Thus maintaining it doesn't solve the problem.
I am not a mathematician like you: I am not ironical.
It is a fact that I am not competent in that domain, so I am ready to learn.
Now, I am ready to adapt to the idea that two Locations or two hexes can actually be only one: ASL physics are not the same as in real life.
But I do think that the definitions of ADJACENT and adjacent should be reworded.
 

bprobst

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He means that you've spent a lot of time blathering about how you think the question is absurd, but you appear to have spent no time whatsoever thinking about the meaning of the question and what is it about the wording of the rules that prompted the original question in the first place. We're discussing the rules to the game, not what is or is not acceptable to your personal definition of logic.
 
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