Is a Dismantled SW Good Order?

SSlunt

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Victory conditions say: The Australians win at game end if they have >=1 Good Order SW with a LOS (disregarding Smoke) to the road segment.
Question:
If you have a dismantled mortar with a LOS to the road segment is it considered Good Order
 
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Could be RPT83 Mile Peg 61, VC being "The Australians win at game end if they have >= 1 Good Order SW with a LOS (disregarding Smoke) to the road segment K3-I12"
 

Larry

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A.7 GOOD ORDER: ... When used in regard to a SW it refers to a SW which is fully manned
by a Good Order Personnel unit and is not malfunctioned or restricted by
Ammunition Shortages.
The question that I cannot find in the rules is: is a dm weapon fully manned?

A weapon capable of firing is not fully manned if the firing is restricted:

Index & A9.22 Is a SW MG `fully manned' by
a) a non-Heroic SMC,
A. No.
b) a Heroic SMC, or
A. No.
c) two SMCs
A. Yes.
d) and thus in Good Order (if otherwise in Good
Order)? Assuming such a MG is capable of at
least 2FP in its Normal Range, can it be used to
declare a Fire Lane (if otherwise able to do so)?
A. Only the last. [Letter48]
I would surmise that a weapon that is dm is not fully manned.
 

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An exception might be a german dismantled MMG/HMG which is still functionally a lmg.

I think common sense would prevail, but probably a good thing to discuss at the at start of that particular scenario.

Probably could use some errata to clarify the issue in the VC.
 

Jazz

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Sounds like something the scenario author and/or Perry need to pass judgement on....but that's just me.

FWIW, if the weapon is not malf'ed and was disassembled according to the manual instructions, it should be considered "Good Order".....but again, that is just me.
 

Stewart

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Poor selection of VC conditions. Dismantled SW in pieces on the ground, Yep Keeps the enemy at Bay!!

Lack of common sense....
Follows the rules, but seriously? Playtested?
 

Jazz

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Poor selection of VC conditions. Dismantled SW in pieces on the ground, Yep Keeps the enemy at Bay!!
Pieces on the ground, or pieces in carrying case (like you were trained to do) ready to move to a secure position?

I mean, you are trying to get them off board so you evidently not be shooting them, right?

<shrug> Maybe the intent of the VC is to represent equipment preservation off board?

I cannot speak to the designer's intent. Can you?
 
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Robin Reeve

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Lack of common sense....
Follows the rules, but seriously? Playtested?
After the last news, ASL is a game.
What works along the rules is fine for me.
Going down the rabbit hole of "realism" arguments: if the objective is about bringing a weapon to or keeping it in the appropriate place, the fact that it is dismantled or not is not important. It is about preservation of resources...

Now, accusing the designer of lacking common sense or of not having playtested the scenario comes out, I am (not so) sorry to say, as outright insulting and actually quite stupid, as you have not the slightest clue about the reasons that led to write that VC (as Jazz rightly said, nobody is in the cortex of the designer to judge his intentions).

Why do you so often need to jab at people in that way?

For that matter, one thing that one cannot accuse the Schwerpunkt of is they neglect playtesting.
Their scenarios have the well-earned reputation of hardly ever needing any errata.
The Tampa staff has been doing an excellent work over the years and they have given a decisive turn to scenario design.
 

Actionjick

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After the last news, ASL is a game.
What works along the rules is fine for me.
Going down the rabbit hole of "realism" arguments: if the objective is about bringing a weapon to or keeping it in the appropriate place, the fact that it is dismantled or not is not important. It is about preservation of resources...

Now, accusing the designer of lacking common sense or of not having playtested the scenario comes out, I am (not so) sorry to say, as outright insulting and actually quite stupid, as you have not the slightest clue about the reasons that led to write that VC (as Jazz rightly said, nobody is in the cortex of the designer to judge his intentions).

Why do you so often need to jab at people in that way?

For that matter, one thing that one cannot accuse the Schwerpunkt of is they neglect playtesting.
Their scenarios have the well-earned reputation of hardly ever needing any errata.
The Tampa staff has been doing an excellent work over the years and they have given a decisive turn to scenario design.
Well said. Thanks.
 

Robin Reeve

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Same publisher and editorial staff. Only difference that I am aware of is RPT was intended to cater to those using the SK rulz?
The series has thematic scenarios too.
E.g. Rally Point 8 "Sons of the Rising Sun, A Special Study of the Pacific Theater".
23177
 
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Stewart

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After the last news, ASL is a game.

Now, accusing the designer of lacking common sense or of not having playtested the scenario comes out, I am (not so) sorry to say, as outright insulting and actually quite stupid, as you have not the slightest clue about the reasons that led to write that VC (as Jazz rightly said, nobody is in the cortex of the designer to judge his intentions).

Why do you so often need to jab at people in that way?
Because something dismantled in a scenario where "typically" SW are used to suppress movement by "virtue" of laying down FP, theoretically, on a road would need to able to actually SHOOT.
I REALLY don't think that's asking TOO much. I'm not so sure that the history of the event had dismantled weapons winning the war.

I don't need to be in the cortex of the designer to judge the sanity of the VC. I can't know his intentions...It's NOT REQUIRED as the intentions should be CLEARLY represented in the scenario. I'm sure the designers out there would agree with me.

IF there are ANY oddities in the VC or SSR, questions arise. Some players don't care about intentions and look to sleaze their way for a victory...as the Mtr in question exceeds a MMC's inherent PP allotment thus reducing their movement.

Not so sure why you are the "Defender of the Innocent".... any scenario designer knows that his scenario has been looked at by many players from many different skill levels. All having different views on the scenario. If his skin is so thin...maybe keep from the fire.

Playtesting should be demanding....many simply play without trying to break it. That's not playtesting...that's playing. You can playtest anything...but the quality can vary between scenarios.


RPT14 German 34 Amer 10
RPT 27 Jap 2 Amer 10
RPT 54 Rus 4 Ital 12

SP27 21/8
SP 28 18/7
SP 59 15/6

There are plenty of "unbalanced" examples. Reasons are numerous....but this "unbalanced" list is just a few.
I honestly don't really trust the results most of the time based on lack of knowledge of the players involved. The value is greatly diminished due to this.
Hence, Guideline.....
I sure wish you would take more time actually answering more towards the topic instead of bothering to focus on my comments...Never knew people gave a darn....My Reaction apparently is reflective of this. FORTUNATELY, I can give a pile of fecal material less...
 
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