British Tommy
Member
Now that was FUNNY Elvis!
Interesting debate at the Scenario Depot II
- Thread starter British Tommy
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- cm scenario design
KG_Jag
KG Vice Kommandir
Elvis--what/who do you mean by Cassio/Webwing?
Is it a reference to Cassio Lima, who is listed on the BF "About Us" page as an 2D/3D artist and "modular guru".
NUTTERNAME
Member
No. He means Normal Dude. Seems that BF needed even more employees to churn out the CMFI revamp of CMx1 features.
Webwing is a "contractor".
Elvis
Member
Normal Dude is not Cassio.
But I see on BFC that a Euro nations mod has been created and is available for download. My understanding is that scenario's and campaigns are being created for East vs West European battles. If true, do you suppose that mod would breath new life into the SF game? Battles in Europe versus Russia would interest me far greater than Syria does now.
Well it just a bunch of green textures.
It doesn't introduce a vegetation model required for the Fulda Gap.
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Yes, I noticed that as well...which makes it a semi-nonstarter anyway...
but the mod maker did admit that the vegetation and buildings were "weak" in his development notes, but you can't knock the guy for creating the mod and scenarios....I mean, hasn't most of this thread decried the fact that no one is doing scenario's and such?
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I'm in no way knocking the guy who makes the mod. I'm expressing sadness about all this effort going into a game that doesn't model vegetation.
Rule_303
Member
Keep in mind though that this thread was over 2 years old (last post in late 2010) when Nutt recently resurrected it, for reasons best known to himself.
There's still a small group of people keeping the lights on over at CMSF MidEast -- a few of them (e.g. CombatIntMan) seem to be actual military folks who have had RL boots on the ground in the places they're gaming.
Steve alluded to doing "something" nice for the residual CMSF1 crowd. I hope what that means at minimum is that they'll try to add in some kind of editor functionality that helps players manually port over their fave Middle East CMSF1 scenarios -- maps, terrain sets, units, AI plans -- to make new scenarios that are playable with the new Shock Force game and 2.x engine. A full conversion module would be too much to hope for... too much Charles brainjar required there.
A little like Bohemia did with Arma2 -- you can still play in "Takistan" if you want, even though the main venue is "Chernarus".
Elvis
Member
Vegetation is very much modeled. I just processed an email turn and the only reason that my men in this screen shot can't see the (at least) 3 German men that are in the circled area is because of vegetation blocking each others lines of site. The turn before we were firing at each other and I was losing men at a wholesale rate to his potato mashers. That's how I know they're there. But this turn neither side fired a shot:
NUTTERNAME
Member
Is this because they are all Pinned or because of the 'Veg'? How can you tell...or 'Test'?
Elvis
Member
That's a good point and I'll double check it....at least on my end. You can test it by seeing if spotting is affected by non-pinned units.
Elvis
Member
A good way to test this would be to have a unit hide in terrain similar to the terrain in the game I'm playing. And then have them hide in the same woods terrain without the ground plants. Have an enemy unit set up in LOS to the hidden unit...at whatever distance you want to test for... and give them a firing covered arc. I had posted a series of shots showing this a long time ago. They involved a gun placed in different types of vegetation. Here's one of them:
But you are correct and I didn't think about that before posting the screen shot. In this case it could very well be that all units are pinned. It was a little bit of a blood bath.
Elvis
Member
Just got a new PBEM file and checked them. I have 8 living men in the area. 7 are "spotting" and one is "moving". So they are pinned/cowering.
NUTTERNAME
Member
I don't follow..."So they are pinned/cowering"...I think you mean to say "not"?Just got a new PBEM file and checked them. I have 8 living men in the area. 7 are "spotting" and one is "moving". So they are pinned/cowering.
Basically, vegetation is concealment terrain in the military sense of the word?
Elvis
Member
Yes, sorry. Meant to say not.
I'm not sure what military sense of the word means.
I'm not sure what military sense of the word means.
NUTTERNAME
Member
Basically, I am talking about Cover vs. Concealment.
Elvis
Member
Then, yes. I mean it in a military sense. Turned out his team had one man left. He was cowering in the ground veggies, which is why I couldn't see him from 10-15m away. I gave all three of my beat up units a hunt command and flushed him out. He had a 4 man team there that had done a ton of damage to me when I came upon them. I probably lost 10 men to his 4.
NUTTERNAME
Member
I would say that veg does offer concealment. That is, hiding and being pinned or cowering breaks being 'spotted'. It would probably be better if a '?' would be present when a unit goes 'dark' like that. But otherwise, it appears to be working.
By the way, It was made very clear to me during basic training the difference between Cover & Concealment. I cringe when a wargamoid confuses the two. We even would yell 'GET DOWN!' when there was no cover or concealment. 'Take Cover!' sort of implies there is cover to take. No one yelled..."TAKE CONCEALMENT!!!".
Elvis
Member
It does...or did. In v1.0 it is a question mark. In v2.0 it is a faded infantry or vehicle icon. You can see it in the screen shot I posted between my men and the bridge.