Interdiction unloading/ lowcrawl unloading?

[Pyth]

Interdiction vs unloading passengers (D5.311)?

I have DM'd broken passenger (German 2.4.7) inside an immob'd truck in an open ground road hex in the los of an interdiction-capable enemy. It is the rout phase. My understanding is that the brokies must rout out of the truck to some legal destination.

[Question invalid --

Brokies must spend 1MF 'unloading' into road hex as first expenditure of Rout?.
(unarmored vehicle provides no cover -- FFMO applies -- D6.5 so: )
Road hex is interdictable so brokies can be interdicted unloading?
Can brokies Low Crawl out of truck?]

Edit** Apologies... Found D5.311 Unprotected Crews after I'd posted, which seems to answer most of this... but it doesn't explicitly address interdiction. Now, I think passengers rout out of truck spending ALL MF to be placed under the vehicle, and I think they are interdictable in the process. True?

 

[jrv]

Re: Interdiction vs unloading passengers (D5.311)?

I have DM'd broken passenger (German 2.4.7) inside an immob'd truck in an open ground road hex in the los of an interdiction-capable enemy. It is the rout phase. My understanding is that the brokies must rout out of the truck to some legal destination.

Questions --

Brokies must spend 1MF 'unloading' into road hex as first expenditure of Rout?.
(unarmored vehicle provides no cover -- FFMO applies -- D6.5 so: )
Road hex is interdictable so brokies can be interdicted unloading?
Can brokies Low Crawl out of truck?

The broken units need not rout out of the vehicle [D6.1], although perhaps it would be a good idea. It takes all MF to rout out of a vehicle [D5.311]. If the truck is now empty, it is converted to a wreck [D8.1], but the exact timing of when it becomes a wreck (and so has TEM) vs. when the unit routs is not defined in the ASLRB. It's not clear to me if the routing infantry would benefit from the wreck TEM (assuming the vehicle is not considered moving per C.8). I would play that the wreck TEM applies.

edit: I don't think the intention was to allow Low Crawl out of a vehicle (my personal opinion of what the rules should be), but I don't see anything that forbids it.

JR

 

[Wayne]

Re: Interdiction vs unloading passengers (D5.311)?

Now, I think passengers rout out of truck spending ALL MF to be placed under the vehicle, and I think they are interdictable in the process. True?

Interdiction occurs only upon RtPh hex entry. A10.53.

In this case, no hex entry event occurs, so, no Interdiction occurs, either.

 

[Vinnie]

Re: Interdiction vs unloading passengers (D5.311)?

If the truck is immobilised and an enemy unit is ADJACENT, can the brokie opt to stay in the truck to avoid doing though ending the rout phase ADJACENT?

 

[Wayne]

Re: Interdiction vs unloading passengers (D5.311)?

If the truck is immobilised and an enemy unit is ADJACENT, can the brokie opt to stay in the truck to avoid doing though ending the rout phase ADJACENT?

Yes.

Broken Passengers need not Rout from their vehicle at all, even if enemy are adjacent or in their Location. D6.1.

 

[klasmalmstrom]

Re: Interdiction vs unloading passengers (D5.311)?

Broken Passengers need not Rout from their vehicle at all, even if enemy are adjacent or in their Location. D6.1.

One exception is, IIRC, if any Inherent crew is also broken...but then the OP asked about a truck.

 

[Wayne]

Re: Interdiction vs unloading passengers (D5.311)?

One exception is, IIRC, if any Inherent crew is also broken...but then the OP asked about a truck.

Yes.

The Broken Crew of a crewed unarmored vehicle, say, has no option, but must take counter form and Rout beneath its vehicle, in its RtPh, even if to its demise. D5.311.

 

[Vinnie]

Re: Interdiction vs unloading passengers (D5.311)?

Thanks for the reference guys but does it mean a passneger can stay there?

The Inherent crew (as well as each Passenger) of a vehicle receiving fire (including Fire Lane Residual FP) [EXC: Sniper attack] through an unarmored Target Facing/Aspect (C3.9; including any OT AFV receiving either Air Bursts or fire from a higher elevation whose elevation advantage is > the range [5.31]—and, vs mines, the PRC of any AFV with a hull AF of 0 [B28.43]) is Vulnerable even if BU, and receives no (or a reduced; 5.31) CE DRM. Consequently the crew is not susceptible to Stun/Recall from such an attack; it is instead subject to PTC/MC/K/KIA results. If it breaks it must rout from the vehicle using normal Infantry rout procedures [EX

This looks to me like the passengers have to rout as well from an unramoured vehicle?

 

[Wayne]

Re: Interdiction vs unloading passengers (D5.311)?

Thanks for the reference guys but does it mean a passneger can stay there?

Maybe.

For a Passenger, Routing is usually an option. D6.1, penultimate. If the Passenger does choose to Rout, the game mechanic is as for a Crew. D6.1->D5.311.

If the Crew leaves the vehicle (or is eliminated), a Broken Passenger must Rout, as though a Crew. D6.1.

 

[klasmalmstrom]

Re: Interdiction vs unloading passengers (D5.311)?

...This looks to me like the passengers have to rout as well from an unramoured vehicle?

It looks to me that the rule might only be talking about the crew.

D5.311:
5.311 UNPROTECTED CREWS: The Inherent crew (as well as each Passenger) of a vehicle receiving fire (including Fire Lane Residual FP) [EXC: Sniper attack] through an unarmored Target Facing/Aspect (C3.9; including any OT AFV receiving either Air Bursts or fire from a higher elevation whose elevation advantage is > the range [5.31]—and, vs mines, the PRC of any AFV with a hull AF of 0 [B28.43]) is Vulnerable even if BU, and receives no (or a reduced; 5.31) CE DRM. Consequently the crew is not susceptible to Stun/Recall from such an attack; it is instead subject to PTC/MC/K/KIA results. If it breaks it must rout from the vehicle using normal Infantry rout procedures [EXC: it expends all its initial-RtPh MF to be placed beneath the vehicle]...."

Don't the three "it" refer back the "the crew" ?

 

[klasmalmstrom]

Re: Interdiction vs unloading passengers (D5.311)?

This was what I was thinking about in post #6 above.

D6.1:
"...Passengers may remain in their vehicle even while broken or may rout beneath a Stopped vehicle per 5.311, unless the inherent crew (if any) is eliminated, breaks, or Abandons the vehicle, in which case any broken Passengers must rout beneath the vehicle...."

 

[Wayne]

Re: Interdiction vs unloading passengers (D5.311)?

It looks to me that the rule might only be talking about the crew.

I agree.

D5.311:
5.311 UNPROTECTED CREWS: The Inherent crew (as well as each Passenger) of a vehicle receiving fire (including Fire Lane Residual FP) [EXC: Sniper attack] through an unarmored Target Facing/Aspect (C3.9; including any OT AFV receiving either Air Bursts or fire from a higher elevation whose elevation advantage is > the range [5.31]—and, vs mines, the PRC of any AFV with a hull AF of 0 [B28.43]) is Vulnerable even if BU, and receives no (or a reduced; 5.31) CE DRM. Consequently the crew is not susceptible to Stun/Recall from such an attack; it is instead subject to PTC/MC/K/KIA results. If it breaks it must rout from the vehicle using normal Infantry rout procedures [EXC: it expends all its initial-RtPh MF to be placed beneath the vehicle]...."

Don't the three "it" refer back the "the crew" ?

Yes, they do.

 

[Vinnie]

Re: Interdiction vs unloading passengers (D5.311)?

This was what I was thinking about in post #6 above.

D6.1:
"...Passengers may remain in their vehicle even while broken or may rout beneath a Stopped vehicle per 5.311, unless the inherent crew (if any) is eliminated, breaks, or Abandons the vehicle, in which case any broken Passengers must rout beneath the vehicle...."

Thanks, this makes more sense now.

 

[Pyth]

Re: Interdiction vs unloading passengers (D5.311)?

Great clarification thanks all... let's see if I can summarize correctly:

If vehicle is crewed by non-broken crew or retains inherent driver

-- Broken passengers may exit stopped vehicle in rout phase -- Expending All Mf to become infantry placed underneath vehicle. This rout is not interdictable.
-- Broken passengers may remain as passengers inside the vehicle where they are not subject to failure to rout elimination for adjacent enemy.

If vehicle is uncrewed/driverless -- Broken passengers must exit stopped vehicle in rout phase -- Expending All Mf to become infantry placed underneath vehicle. This rout is not interdictable.

Yes?
----

My follow up Question here is about inherent drivers (for example, truck drivers) and how they handle immob results. D5.1 tells us an inherent driver never leaves the vehicle and is never treated as crew. I take that rule clearly to mean inherent drivers never take counter form -- but must I take the rest of it literally -- no crew rules apply to inherent drivers? So, are inherent drivers exempt from D5.5 Immobilization TCs, or (and this is the interpretation I prefer although I have no idea if it is correct and it doesn't seem right according to COWTRA) they take the immob TC and if they fail it the truck is abandoned and the driver ceases to exist?

At present my literal reading of the rules is that in an immob truck the inherent driver is immune to all crew consequences such as immob TC... he is chained to the steering wheel, he cannot ever leave the vehicle but will go down with the ship. This basically means that broken truck passengers can remain inside a truck until the truck is eliminated -- immob'd truck cannot be abandoned by driver -- although of course an immob'd truck remains a target and offers no protection. Is this correct? (I hope not.)

 

[Vinnie]

Re: Interdiction vs unloading passengers (D5.311)?

I think so but an unarmed unarmoured vehicle can generally be ignored.

Mind you, I'm 0 for 3 on rules answers today!

 

[jrv]

Re: Interdiction vs unloading passengers (D5.311)?

I don't think that a vehicle can be driverless unless it is a crewed vehicle that is abandoned or the crew killed (could happen for an OT vehicle which is attacked with reduced CE DRM and so is treated like a soft vehicle), discounting Motorcycles/Bicycles which are their own set of questions.

Although Wayne has provided a reasoning for a lack of interdiction, there is something very fishy about it, as too with using low crawl to exit the vehicle. For now let us assume it is true.

Inherent Drivers never come out of their vehicle, also per the Index. As long as an unarmed vehicle is not destroyed, it has an Inherent Driver. An Inherent Driver has no ML with which to take a immobilization task check, among other reasons for their being "immune" to such.

JR

 

[Pyth]

Re: Interdiction vs unloading passengers (D5.311)?

Although Wayne has provided a reasoning for a lack of interdiction, there is something very fishy about it, as too with using low crawl to exit the vehicle. For now let us assume it is true.
JR

For no interdiction, I don't know if fishy is the right word, maybe -- slight? -- but I'm happy to play it that way. Against that interpretation, it seems worth pointing out that unloading from an unarmored vehicle is elsewhere explicitly mentioned as being FFMO if the hex is Open Ground.


The "no low crawl unloading" seems correct to me in more than one way including, emphatically, COWTRA.