Indian Army WWII?

[Jack Dionne]

While watching the History Television (Canadian version) last night about the British Empire in colour it was mentioned by the narrator that the British Empire had over two million men under arms in India. It was also mentioned as a general statement about Indian troops that they had excellent discipline.
With such a large body of troops over two million one would think that it would warrant some serious consideration to have their own National characteristics and counters with specific names for leaders.
Economically it will probably never happen, however it is a huge force that should be recognized in ASL terms.

Yes, I know that they are represented by the Commonwealth counters. I am not a historian; however if someone who is familiar with this topic could give me an unbiased opinion in regards to the Indian Army of WWII.

Is the Indian Army of WWII being realistically portrayed in ASL?


Please post if you have facts to back up your arguments. I am ready to learn.

 

[Pitman]

It is realistically portrayed in ASL. It was trained using British doctrine, British weapons, and (mostly) British officers, so the use of British counters is appropriate (although personally I would love for all major forces to have separate counter schemes). Indian troop quality ranged from raw and relatively untrained to elite; the Gurkha battalions, of course, are famous. Overall, the Indian units that fought in North Africa, Italy, and Burma/India performed extremely well.

 

[Chas Argent]

They made up the bulk of Allied forces in East Africa as well in 1940-41.

 

[Doughboy]

While watching the History Television (Canadian version) last night about the British Empire in colour it was mentioned by the narrator that the British Empire had over two million men under arms in India. It was also mentioned as a general statement about Indian troops that they had excellent discipline.
With such a large body of troops over two million one would think that it would warrant some serious consideration to have their own National characteristics and counters with specific names for leaders.
Economically it will probably never happen, however it is a huge force that should be recognized in ASL terms.

Yes, I know that they are represented by the Commonwealth counters. I am not a historian; however if someone who is familiar with this topic could give me an unbiased opinion in regards to the Indian Army of WWII.

Is the Indian Army of WWII being realistically portrayed in ASL?


Please post if you have facts to back up your arguments. I am ready to learn.

To say that the Indian Army made a major contribution to the British war effort is a major understatement. The British Army in the early war years suffered enormous losses as a fighting force in ETO. Many setbacks such as the withdrawal from France, the fighting withdrawl from Greece and the setbacks in North Africa certainly contributed towards a drain on available manpower. Added to that was the need to maintain a very large Navy and aggressive Bomber offensive.

Once the Japanese came into play the British suffered enormously from the fall of Singapore, largest British surrender in history and the longest British retreat in history in Burma. Fortunately, for the British what was at stake in the Far East were in line with India's defence. This is not to say that Britain did not already have a large contingent of Indian colonial troops but, it is fortunate that they did and were able to draw upon it to the total war effort. I get images of John Hillerman playing Higgins (Magnum PI) who always reminence about his days as a Sgt Major with Regiment in India. :cheeky:

 

[The Purist]

The Indian Army did experience some growing pains in late 41 and 1942 (represented by 447 in Burma/India until later on) but by 1944 performed very well with the new tactics adopted by Gen Slim and the 14th Army.

 

[purdyrc]

Maybe as a compromise, MMP could produce some counters with Indian names and leadership values applicable to that army.

- Rick

 

[Jack Dionne]

The Indian Army did experience some growing pains in late 41 and 1942 (represented by 447 in Burma/India until later on) but by 1944 performed very well with the new tactics adopted by Gen Slim and the 14th Army.

Hi Gerry
Can you be more specific?

Also should they not have a seperate ELR chart for DYO purposes?

Does anyone know of any Indian regiments by name that would get the elite status(8 morale)other than the Gurkas?

To everyone who posted on this thread, thank you.

 

[The Purist]

Hi Jack,

Well,...the Indian Army, much like the rest of the British army, was expanded very rapidly early in the war. A standard infantry brigade had two Indian reg`ts and one British reg`t. The "Indian Army" was mostly officered by Brits but by the early 40's more and more Indians were being commisioned. The reason for the 447 is mainly due to a lack of training, especially for troops early in the fighting in Malaya and Burma.

Like any unit, it would take some research to determine which regiments would rate being elite, regiments had names such as "#/# Rajputana Rifles" etc. One regiment that could rate as elite would be the divisonal cavalry reg`t of 5th Indian division during the Crusader battles in late 41 in Libya (can`t remeber the actual name off hand but if it matters I will find out). These lads were mounted in carriers and ACs and raised holy hell with all the opponents they came against.

 

[Evan Sherry]

...

Is the Indian Army of WWII being realistically portrayed in ASL?


Please post if you have facts to back up your arguments. I am ready to learn.

Jack,

Brook White covered this topic very well in "The Armies of the Raj: India's Army in WWII" which appeared in Schwerpunkt #6 The Victoria Cross. He addresses various aspects of the Indian Army and how it translates into ASL.

Evan Sherry
Editor, Schwerpunkt

 

[Pitman]

Jack, there are plenty of sources; I suggest you seek them out. In particularly, I recommend the divisional histories of the 4th Indian Division, the 5th Indian Division, and the 23rd Indian Division. I haven't read the history of the 17th Indian Division, but I am sure it is useful. The volumes of the British official history on east Africa, the western desert, Italy, and the East Asian theater also have a lot of information, as do books on Burma like Lewis Allen's overview, or the memoirs of any number of British officers who commanded Indian troops (including Slim, Fergusson, and many others).

 

[AdrianE]

A standard infantry brigade had two Indian reg`ts and one British reg`t.

Remember that a commonwealth "regiment" is actually a "battalion" sized combat unit. It comprises two numbered battalions. One of which is a stay at home battalion which admininisters, recruits and trains replacements (1st battalion IIRC). The other battalion (2nd battalion IIRC) is the combat one.

 

[ChrisBuehler]

I believe I recall hearing a report on BBC world report recently about a small contingent of Indian troops who fought for Germany. It was their belief that once England was defeated in Europe, these Indian troops would parachute into India to drive the remaining British troops out.

Chris

 

[DLYoung70]

Looks like it's time for MMP to fire up a new module. The soldiers of India definitely made significant contributions. I say a new module with Indian counters, some special rules for Ghurkas (deadly in CC with those dang knives!), and maybe some counters for the Anzacs as well. To heck with calling them all "Commonwealth" and treating them like Brits

Darrell

 

[purdyrc]

Looks like it's time for MMP to fire up a new module. The soldiers of India definitely made significant contributions. I say a new module with Indian counters, some special rules for Ghurkas (deadly in CC with those dang knives!), and maybe some counters for the Anzacs as well. To heck with calling them all "Commonwealth" and treating them like Brits

Darrell

Oh lord, I better order up some more Planos!

- Rick

 

[paulkenny]

Didnt HOB give the INdians unique characteristics in Fortress Casino?

P

 

[Pitman]

Chris, yes, this was the unit raised by Bose, who later deserted them and went to the Japanese, to raise pro-Axis Indian units (the INA) for them.

 

[Jack Dionne]

Jack,

Brook White covered this topic very well in "The Armies of the Raj: India's Army in WWII" which appeared in Schwerpunkt #6 The Victoria Cross. He addresses various aspects of the Indian Army and how it translates into ASL.

Evan Sherry
Editor, Schwerpunkt

Thanks for the info. How do I get Schwerpunkt #6. Is this available online?
Again this is an extremely productive thread for me in which I have learnt a lot. Who needs their own data base when you have the Warfare HQ forum for ASL.
You guys are awesome!!

 

[Hams]

Indian troop quality ranged from raw and relatively untrained to elite; the Gurkha battalions, of course, are famous. Overall, the Indian units that fought in North Africa, Italy, and Burma/India performed extremely well.

Just a minor point but the Gurkha's are from Nepal not India.

dang knives!

...they would be Kukri at a guess?

 

[Klaus Fischer]

Looks like it's time for MMP to fire up a new module. The soldiers of India definitely made significant contributions. I say a new module with Indian counters, some special rules for Ghurkas (deadly in CC with those dang knives!), and maybe some counters for the Anzacs as well. To heck with calling them all "Commonwealth" and treating them like Brits

Darrell

Well, the ANZAC would definately make cool counters...I remember creating ANZAC counters for my Vietnam module (see attachement) and I feel they look mondo cool :smoke:

 

[Pitman]

I never said the Gurkhas were from India. The Gurkhas were Nepalese volunteers who were organized into battalions that were placed in Indian divisions in World War II. Thus it is appropriate to talk of Gurkhas when talking about the Indian Army in World War II.