In praise of Battle School's Battle Dice!!!

AZslim

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No. I won't bend to any ridiculous dice superstition.

The other guy can change his dice, talk to them, throw them out of the window. I don't care.
As JRV says, I am not wasting time always looking for that single pair.
If the other guy means to imply that I cheat using dice, well, thank you for the game, go find another opponent.

von Marwitz
The reason is......unless they are precision dice, there is a good chance they are not square. Using the same dice means the same flaws appear to both players. The exact opposite of a dice superstition. Not wanting anybody to touch one's dice is a silly superstition.
 

von Marwitz

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The reason is......unless they are precision dice, there is a good chance they are not square. Using the same dice means the same flaws appear to both players. The exact opposite of a dice superstition. Not wanting anybody to touch one's dice is a silly superstition.
Even if they are not square, these 'flaws' do not really matter:


You can also google for the "chi²"-Test to determine if the aberration of your dice compared to perfect dice is statistically relevant.
  1. Chances are, that precision dice roll a bit "fairer".
  2. Chances are, too, that this tiny little bit of difference between "precision" dice and "normal" dice does not have any significance on the game.
  3. Chances are very much, that other factors are tremendously more important to the game, i.e. in which situation you roll good or bad (i.e. malf your most important weapon, or burn that Tiger with a Critical Hit), your skill, your rules knowledge.
And it is not about not wanting to someone else 'touching' one's dice. It is about convenience of using more than one pair. No superstition involved.

von Marwitz
 

Tooz

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So, what are the next dice sets going to be and when available?
 

AZslim

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Even if they are not square, these 'flaws' do not really matter:


You can also google for the "chi²"-Test to determine if the aberration of your dice compared to perfect dice is statistically relevant.
  1. Chances are, that precision dice roll a bit "fairer".
  2. Chances are, too, that this tiny little bit of difference between "precision" dice and "normal" dice does not have any significance on the game.
  3. Chances are very much, that other factors are tremendously more important to the game, i.e. in which situation you roll good or bad (i.e. malf your most important weapon, or burn that Tiger with a Critical Hit), your skill, your rules knowledge.
And it is not about not wanting to someone else 'touching' one's dice. It is about convenience of using more than one pair. No superstition involved.

von Marwitz
How much harder is it to use the same dice?
 

jrv

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How much harder is it to use the same dice?
Much harder. You can use any pair of my dice you want. I will use a different pair. I have I have a spare dice glass too, so we don't have to share that either. We can swap dice and/or glasses at any time you like. I will indulge your dice fetish if it's not too annoying. If you want to swap between every roll, I'm probably going to call it and pack up my stuff.

JR
 

von Marwitz

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How much harder is it to use the same dice?
Depends on your habits.

I have the habit to often hold the dice in my hands while not rolling them. This means that I will often subconciously grab them a short while after the roll. If you use only one pair, then your opponent will look for them and won't find them. This turned out to be quite an unintentional nuisance which only came to my attention a couple of years ago when someone insisted to use only one pair of dice and I agreed.

In another game, someone asked specifically for more than one pair of dice to be used because he wanted to leave his dice (with the result) on the table until it was the opponent's turn to roll his. His reasoning: Sometimes you want to check back if you calculated DR mods correctly and if the dice have already been taken up again (or subconciously grabbed by people like me...), then he sometimes wouldn't remember the result.

Furthermore, usually use a leather dice cup - unless someone provides a dice-tower. That means there will always be reaching across the board for the dice if no dice tower is available. Also tiresome.


von Marwitz
 

BattleSchool

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So, what are the next dice sets going to be and when available?
Whatever comes together the easiest. I was considering adding some 12.5mm BattleDice for the Korean War, but they may be too much work for too little gain at this stage. Most likely, it will be something in 16mm. No shortage of candidates. Earliest release date at this point would be the fall. (Too busy on the homefront to dedicate time to new designs at the moment, sorry.)
 

Tooz

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KWASL Dice may be a good choice--count me in. Standard Soviet hammer and sickle on the red die and perhaps the CCP RA symbol on the white? South Korean on the white and a blue UN?
7343734473457346
 

AZslim

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Much harder. You can use any pair of my dice you want. I will use a different pair. I have I have a spare dice glass too, so we don't have to share that either. We can swap dice and/or glasses at any time you like. I will indulge your dice fetish if it's not too annoying. If you want to swap between every roll, I'm probably going to call it and pack up my stuff.

JR
Wait. I suggested using the same dice to avoid any problems. Now I have a dice fetish. I don't have to use the same dice...although it's hardly a problem with a dice tower. I'll do it either way. I don't much care. I would think the refusal to let anybody touch one's dice is the fetish.
 

djohannsen

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It's interesting to me how many people distrust standard dice and the VASSL dice bot because of some anecdote that occurred at some point in their playing career...

Anyway, I agree with those who have said words to the effect that if you don't trust my dice, then I'll finish the game and find another opponent the next time - if you think that I'll compromise my integrity over a game, then we don't have much to discuss. I am also of the school that if you want to use my dice, you may, but I will grab another set for myself to continue the game. Sharing one set of dice involves constantly reaching across the table and slows play - just an annoyance when trying to play what can already be a long game.
 

jrv

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I would think the refusal to let anybody touch one's dice is the fetish.
I don't care if someone touches my dice. Playing with a single set of dice adds a layer of practical annoyance. I don't want to have to search the other side of the table for the dice. It's bad enough when I lose them on my side of the table. Playing with a single dice glass adds a layer of practical annoyance. I have a spare. If you use such, using a single dice tower adds a layer of practical annoyance. There are two reasons a player will want to share dice. One, he didn't bring any. Not a problem, take some of mine and a glass too. That's not a fetish. Two, he feels my dice are luckier or are rigged or whatever. That's a dice fetish. I bought a bunch of expensive precision backgammon dice, four white and sixteen color. I As far as I know they are about as fair as can be made. Here, take this pair I'm using. I'll use another. If you want to touch my dice (to jinx them?), knock yourself out. We're not playing with just one pair. And we are not playing while standing on our heads either.

JR
 
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hongkongwargamer

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I buy ASL stuff that I will never get around to play. I buy BattleSchool dice that I will never get around to use.

I'd rather lend you another set of dice to use than for the both of us to use the same pair just 'cause the latter is inconvenient.

That's it. No superstition about randomness or other crazy stuff. If I don't lend my dice out, that's 'cause I saw those same fingers going into other orifices (your own or others).

We buy things emotionally ("Just 'cause I can!") and we justify our buys logically ("Oh .. I did 53 4-dimensional Chi-test and it skewed only 10^-5 .. blah blah").
 

Jeffrey D Myers

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I buy ASL stuff that I will never get around to play. I buy BattleSchool dice that I will never get around to use.

I'd rather lend you another set of dice to use than for the both of us to use the same pair just 'cause the latter is inconvenient.

That's it. No superstition about randomness or other crazy stuff. If I don't lend my dice out, that's 'cause I saw those same fingers going into other orifices (your own or others).

We buy things emotionally ("Just 'cause I can!") and we justify our buys logically ("Oh .. I did 53 4-dimensional Chi-test and it skewed only 10^-5 .. blah blah").
The New Year has rendered Mr. Kwan very "Unmutual".... :devilish:
 

AZslim

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I don't care if someone touches my dice. Playing with a single set of dice adds a layer of practical annoyance. I don't want to have to search the other side of the table for the dice. It's bad enough when I lose them on my side of the table. Playing with a single dice glass adds a layer of practical annoyance. I have a spare. If you use such, using a single dice tower adds a layer of practical annoyance. There are two reasons a player will want to share dice. One, he didn't bring any. Not a problem, take some of mine and a glass too. That's not a fetish. Two, he feels my dice are luckier or are rigged or whatever. That's a dice fetish. I bought a bunch of expensive precision backgammon dice, four white and sixteen color. I As far as I know they are about as fair as can be made. Here, take this pair I'm using. I'll use another. If you want to touch my dice (to jinx them?), knock yourself out. We're not playing with just one pair. And we are not playing while standing on our heads either.

JR
OK. Next time we play I'm bringing two pair. What scenario do you like?
 

Philippe D.

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I'd be much, much more worried by a VASL opponent who suggested using a camera and real dice over the random.org dicebot. For one thing, it would be much less convenient; for another, someone who wanted to cheat over a webcam would have a much easier time doing it than hacking random.org.

As for sharing dice... my opinion is that someone insisting on using their own dice and not sharing tends to be suspect; JR's version ("we don't share, but we can switch if you like") is much fairer. In practice, I don't care much; in theory, anyone who insists on following a protocol that would be beneficial to a cheater, is doing it wrong.
 
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