Impeachment

DWPetros

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Well, it looks like the Dems are finally pulling the trigger.


It would be great to see him actually impeached, but I have my doubts. In the past, such shameful acts by any elected official would have resulted in dismissal, resignation, and generally getting out of Dodge before being tarred and feathered. But today's Trump Party and certainly Trump - have reached new lows. They have no shame. Shame no longer applies in Trumpian politics - it's now a criminal enterprise. The die is cast.

Trump will resist any Constitutional actions or requests for information by the House. The bootlicking Trump Party who leads the Senate will not impeach. I think we'll end up with a stalemate here. A broken Constitution and government.
 
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Brian W

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There's an easy solution: tell the Ukrainians that they must supply the transcripts of the phone call, as well as the people Giuliani talked to, and until they do they won't get any of the aid Congress has promised.

:)
 

Brian W

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Tulsi Gabbard was on CNN saying that Congress should never impeach Trump because to do so would tear apart the country. When pressed on what congress should do while Trump breaks the law, Gabbard repeatedly said Congress should "investigate" but that the citizens would have to vote him out of office, and that other candidates that supported impeachment were doing so because they did not believe they could beat Trump in a general election.

Hawaii, please elect someone else as representative; your current version is confused which party she belongs to and which constitution she should be upholding.
 

Sand Bar Bill

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Trump might be releasing the transcript, but we really need to see the whistleblower complaint to get the whole context.
 

DWPetros

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There are and will be two mainstream, separate narratives covering this mess. One will be based more in reality - the other in fantasy. Hopefully, enough people follow the more realistic story and see for themselves what sort of criminal inhabits the White House and will turn out to vote in 2020 accordingly.

I'm not holding my breath.
 

Sand Bar Bill

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It’s fault of a Republican Party that went over the edge of partisan rage and destruction long ago. They’re the ones who tried at every turn to prevent President Obama from rescuing the economy after he took office. They’re the ones who were willing to die on the hill of protecting tax cuts for the rich. They’re the ones who have relentlessly gerrymandered and suppressed the black vote because that’s good for Republicans. They’re the ones who spent years trying to tar Hillary Clinton over Benghazi. They’re the ones who stonewalled the nomination of Merrick Garland to the Supreme Court. They’re the ones who got so caught up in their own loathing of Hillary Clinton that they turned away from the pussy tape and voted for Trump anyway. They’re the ones who spent their first year in office desperately trying to take away health care for the poor and working classes.
 

Brian W

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They’re the ones who spent years trying to tar Hillary Clinton over Benghazi.
Yes, it's funny that the same people that used investigations of Clinton are now saying Biden should be investigated for something done while they were in charge of congress. They had 5 years to investigate Biden, but he wasn't a presidential candidate back then, so there wasn't anything in it for them. And now, all they can talk about is whatabout Biden. Because you know someone elses crime is always a good excuse for your crime spree.
 

Paul M. Weir

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Tulsi Gabbard was on CNN saying that Congress should never impeach Trump because to do so would tear apart the country.
Your country, like the UK, is already pretty well torn apart. Starting with The Newt the right has pursued a scorched earth approach to advance their agenda and has dragged the US with them. The only way the US can get itself out of its current mess is by the utter political defeat of the right. The last few years should have proved to anyone with two brain cells that compromise with the right only results with them demanding then stealing more.
 
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Brian W

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Trump's like a man with a gun who thinks his hostages actually agree with him and not the gun.

Trump incredulous after his moves on transparency failed to stop Pelosi

President Donald Trump was incredulous Tuesday as he sat in Trump Tower and watched House Speaker Nancy Pelosi announce she was launching a formal impeachment inquiry against him, sources familiar with the moment say. Sitting in the same building where he launched his long shot presidential campaign four years ago, Trump said he couldn't believe it, he later told people.

He had felt confident after phoning Pelosi earlier that morning. The drive for impeachment in her caucus had ramped up amid reports he pushed the Ukrainian President to investigate Joe Biden, and Trump was hoping to head off a clash. He figured he could de-escalate tensions by speaking with her directly.
 

DWPetros

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I think this impeachment stuff may well also bring Biden down. His hands aren't clean w/respect to what happened in Ukraine and this will come out.

The country is looking for honest-dealers and while Trump is by far the worst of the worst, Biden's possible double-dealing here will not serve him in the 2020 elections. So, look out below.

 

Brian W

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His hands aren't clean w/respect to what happened in Ukraine and this will come out.
That's a republican lie. There's been absolutely zero evidence wrongdoing. Any repetition of that without evidence is spreading a republican lie to save Trump in a grand Whataboutism scheme.

We get you don't like Biden, but lying about him is beneath anyone but republicans.
 

DWPetros

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That's a republican lie. There's been absolutely zero evidence wrongdoing. Any repetition of that without evidence is spreading a republican lie to save Trump in a grand Whataboutism scheme.
We get you don't like Biden, but lying about him is beneath anyone but republicans.
Please. Grow up. I don't like Biden much, but objective interest in finding out the full truth here should eclipse partisanship. You can climb down off your fuzzy tree.

Did you happen to read the article I posted from a left-leaning site? Or, have you made up your mind exactly what went down here prior to hearing all the facts? Here's what catches my eye.

"Hunter Biden, Joe’s wayward son, was paid $50,000 a month for serving on the board of Burisma, a Ukrainian natural gas company whose boss, Mykola Zlochevsky, was under fire for possibly corrupt dealings. Zlochevsky’s strategy included creating a prestigious and well-connected international board. Before getting this gig, Hunter Biden had zero knowledge or experience in Ukraine.
Does any sentient person think he was hired for any reason other than the fact that he was the vice president’s son? If you or I offered to serve on the board of a Ukrainian company for $50,000, it would be a joke.
Then Joe Biden compounded the problem, as Obama’s point man on Ukraine, by pressing the government to fire the prosecutor who was going after Burisma, on whose board Hunter served. The story gets very muddy here, because the prosecutor very likely was corrupt, too, and there were good reasons to force him out."

I'm not saying by any stretch that what Biden may have done is in any way as terrible as what Trump has likely done. I'm saying this kind of stuff about Biden may bring him down. Refute my points. Or slink away.
 

Brian W

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Did you happen to read the article I posted from a left-leaning site?
You mean the one with no evidence at all? Yes. And now, when you re-elect Trump as you so desire, you can troll the internet and find more innuendo and lies to repost here.
 

DWPetros

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You missed my point. Entirely. No surprise.

The point that I hope anyone here who is paying attention will get is this - Biden apparently did some sketchy things in the Ukraine. That information isn't just being brought up by the right-wing propaganda machine. This impeachment process will include the GOP bringing up a number of Biden related issues which expose him to questions regarding his own Ukrainian interactions. Those questions, based on actual facts (Biden's son's appointment, pressing the Ukrainians to fire the investigator), may indeed hurt Biden. It's possible Biden was double-dealing. Let's not muddy the waters on this impeachment process though - that's a serious deal and any sane person wants Trump out on the street asap.

Compared to what Trump did, what Biden appears to have done is small change. But in today's political climate - it's a big deal. I don't think in a binary way; 'Democrats are always good'. They aren't. Biden may have done some things he shouldn't have. If Trump is to go down, let it be a fair fight - let the facts speak for themselves.
 

DWPetros

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Back to the main event. Impeachment.

Looks like this guy may be cooked. At least that would seem to be the case. Trump has always stayed one step in front of the law - if he has a skill, it's that. His skill at cleverly avoiding the law worked (more or less) in the sleazy world of NY commercial real estate, but can he still slip away this time? I think not.

 

Sand Bar Bill

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We all know what will happen: the House will impeach, the Senate will not remove.

Millions will vote to re-elect this thug. I live in red America though, it is a cultural thing. I know they would be very angry if it was a Democrat who did this.
 

Paul M. Weir

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Here is my take about Biden and Ukraine: Biden's thing is the equivalent of rich parents making some big donation to a college to increase their offspring's chance of getting in. Unlike the current college scandal that is quite legal. Spanky's equivalent is not just bribing admissions people but running down rival students and hostile college officials. There simply is no comparison between the two.

What will matter is the public perception, regardless of the underlying legality or moral magnitude. The Spanky mob will just "spray and pray", they are well versed in that and some of that will stick. Biden has seen Warren catch up with him and any whiff of scandal will further damage his "electability", which is about the only thing that he has in his arsenal. As Warren is already seen as the prime Biden challenger, she will be the one most to gain out of any Biden-Ukraine dirt.

Life ain't fair.
 

Brian W

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Senator Chris Murphy is clear and concise about the heart of the matter.

 

Brian W

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And, because the staff is only as good as the leadership at the top. I imagine with this group in charge a war with Iran would end with the US occupied by Iranian militia.

WH accidentally sent Ukraine talking points to Democrats -- then tried to recall them

The White House accidentally emailed House Democrats a list of talking points Wednesday that were intended for Trump administration allies [i.e. FoxNews and conservative radio hosts--bmw] in response to the Ukraine scandal -- and then asked Democrats to send them back.

The mishap adds another surreal layer to Wednesday's swirl of events. A White House transcript of a July phone call between President Donald Trump and Ukraine President Volodymyr Zelensky reveals Trump's efforts to pressure his Ukrainian counterpart to investigate former Vice President Joe Biden and his son Hunter, further ratcheting up talk among Democrats to conduct an impeachment investigation.
 
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TopT

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Those questions, based on actual facts (Biden's son's appointment, pressing the Ukrainians to fire the investigator), may indeed hurt Biden. It's possible Biden was double-dealing.
You are the problem with politics. You see/ want conspiracy where there is none when it fits how you want things to look and look away when it doesn't.

Biden did call for the [Ukranian] AG to be fired along with the German govt, British govt., World Bank, IMF and a host of other Western governments. He was a crooked AG. That is what you call a fact. Were all of the countries/ monetary agencies in on the deal to help Biden's son?

Think about it:
-push to fire the AG that IS NOT looking into your son's company & corruption
-push to replace with an AG that WILL look for corruption & possibly his son's company

This from the Ukrainian anti-corruption agency (Daria Kaleniuk, executive director of the Kyiv-based Anti-Corruption Action Center (AntAC):

Activists say the case had been sabotaged by Shokin himself. As an example, they say two months before Hunter Biden joined Burisma's board, British authorities had requested information from Shokin's office as part of an investigation into alleged money laundering by Zlochevskiy. Shokin ignored them.

Kaleniuk and AntAC published a detailed timeline of events surrounding the Burisma case, an outline of evidence suggesting that three consecutive chief prosecutors of Ukraine -- first Shokin’s predecessor, then Shokin, and then his successor -- worked to bury it.

"Ironically, Joe Biden asked Shokin to leave because the prosecutor failed [to pursue] the Burisma investigation, not because Shokin was tough and active with this case," Kaleniuk said.

Ukrainian prosecutors have described no evidence indicating that Biden sought to help his son by getting Shokin dismissed -- and have suggested that they have not discovered any such evidence.

But there is a long list of Western organizations, governments, and diplomats, as well as Ukrainian anti-corruption groups, that wanted to see Shokin fired.

They include the International Monetary Fund, the European Union, the U.S. government, foreign investors, and Ukrainian advocates of reform.


Don (tRUMP), You will spin it because that is what you do to show that you are on the cutting edge and the rest of us are behind the times.
 
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