Illuminating Rounds: Episode 24: The Hellenic Expedition

asloser

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Great episode as always!

One great comment Toby made which I personally have struggled with is the pace or flow of play. I am not a masterclass player but I like to play fast paced game. That is why I always have been more comfortable attacking, as I can control the flow of the play better and I have worked a lot on my patience to get better in defending especially against slower players.

During the last couple of months I have done more PBEM and I've found out that this play format improves my game - I can step through the log files at my own pace, and the game flows the way I want.
 

JoeArthur

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Gotta be a patron for that pleasure! But we'd be happy to play you, us taking the US, probably sometime in August.
So, there was me thinking about this. It's not very nice of me to call the scenario a dog when somebody has poured hours of work into it. Specifically Pete Shelling and MMP.

I have played one scenario with the designer of the scenario as my opponent. It was HS10 Government Property designed by Marty Snow and Tim Hunsdorfer. Marty had some interesting comments. Once they gave it to MMP they changed it. They did not tell Marty why or what the changes were.

So if you want a better episode than me playing the Germans running for the board edge how about getting in touch with Mr Shelling and see if he will play the US and show us all how to do it? I bet he has some interesting things to say about the design and playtesting process as well................

And after that see if you can get Mattias Ronnblom on to explain how to win FrF77 Ghostbusters as the Germans. That is another one that I have played twice and how the Germans can win that one is above my puny intellect :D
 
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Stewart

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Now we can beg to question.

Were they intended to be balanced anyway?
Hasl campaigns have the reputation of not being balanced.... Well, is that even the point? It's likely to be the experience.

Also, if there scenario contains done special trick in its design, if you don't find the trick, you don't win the game.

Design intent isn't listed on the card.
 

JoeArthur

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So - I heard that Toby recently played Late for Chow as the US against Neil B. Neil almost got the win.

I'm not being set-up am I? :)
 

Tuomo

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It's not very nice of me to call the scenario a dog when somebody has poured hours of work into it. Specifically Pete Shelling and MMP.
I get it, but it's hard to not feel a level of annoyance/anger when one's rare gaming time is spent on a scenario that sure seems tough on one side. It's annoying enough when the dice take over (which happens more than it should, IMO, but perhaps that's just the way it is in this modern world of 6 turn 10 squad scenarios).

I imagine scenario designers need to have thick skins.
 

JoeArthur

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Dave,

If you are looking for a scenario that has been used in a tourny with unexpected results how about one of last years Bounding Fire scenarios? The Onslaught To Orsha huge one. That has a story to tell - which I was reminded of by posting to the Bounding Fire thread.

Martin Mayers was told by Bounding Fire that he had to play that one, yet the results were not what he expected............

I would be happy to give that one another go as the Russians. It would be a challenge............
 

Martin Mayers

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Dave,

If you are looking for a scenario that has been used in a tourny with unexpected results how about one of last years Bounding Fire scenarios? The Onslaught To Orsha huge one. That has a story to tell - which I was reminded of by posting to the Bounding Fire thread.

Martin Mayers was told by Bounding Fire that he had to play that one, yet the results were not what he expected............

I would be happy to give that one another go as the Russians. It would be a challenge............
To be fair to the BFP guys they don't "tell us anything". It was my call entirely to put it in the tournament. Bounding Fire suggested it be included as it had played so well in playtest and moved along fairly quickly for a large scenario.

So I playtested it four times with four separate players. Two Russian wins. Two German wins. I played under the tournament guidelines I provided. German set ups in half an hour. Russian scratch set up (throw em down). Took me six hours max to play to an end. I considered it doable in an afternoon and early evening session. And it is/was.

One learns a lot from running these tournaments. And one of the things learnt here was that British pace of play is not quick enough for this. We're not, generally speaking capable of shifting up the gears and playing in a different manner. So I'll not take that particular risk again. What was telling was that SOME players absorbed 'the brief'. Got on with it, and finished on time. Some players approached my briefing "that it can be done" and that "it's a fantastic scenario" as some kind of challenge to prove me wrong :rolleyes:

The main practical mistake we made I think was under-estimating the time it took to set up the game. That's entirely on me. Although in my defence I had, pre-tournament, told people EXACTLY what counters they needed for the tournament. They could have come with the counters ready.

It's a balanced scenario though. The win-loss record was an aberration. Martin Barker, in Illuminating Rounds, marked this scenario as the third best Eastern Front scenario he's ever played. I rated it on play test as my favourite ever. That's the fundamental reason I threw it in. Because it was such fun. And also, because it featured a brand new/unplayed map. I obviously have different tastes than a lot of our tournament entries. Anyone who has OtO who hasn't played this, should.
 

daveramsey

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It's such a tricky thing, tournament timings, given the almost impossible job to arbitrate a result should the game not finish, and if you eliminate both players (or just award a draw) for not finishing, some might say that it's too easy to drag a game out to a draw.

The only alternative answer is to use chess clocks. We're going to try that at some point - although I know that'll never take off in tournaments.

Desperate Bridgehead is definitely on our list!
 

Toby Pilling

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The only alternative answer is to use chess clocks. We're going to try that at some point - although I know that'll never take off in tournaments.
I remember a tournament in Melbourne when my game completely went to pieces the first time I used a chess clock. It would be a great thing to try out on an episode of IR though - speak to some of the Ozzies like Bruce Probst to find out exactly how they use them.
 

Martin Mayers

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It's such a tricky thing, tournament timings, given the almost impossible job to arbitrate a result should the game not finish, and if you eliminate both players (or just award a draw) for not finishing, some might say that it's too easy to drag a game out to a draw.

The only alternative answer is to use chess clocks. We're going to try that at some point - although I know that'll never take off in tournaments.

Desperate Bridgehead is definitely on our list!
I just don't understand how a chess clock would work when so much time is shared time in ASL ?

I can see a lot of clicking and exclamations of "it's your time (click)"..."no it's your time (click)"..."no, it's your time you idiot (click)"

:rolleyes::D:)
 

Sparafucil3

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I had one tournament player who knew I was against a deadline to leave, draw the game out. Life's too short to care much though. I was up, winning pretty big at the time too. Tough to drag out skulking, but he managed it nicely. Meh. -- jim
 

JoeArthur

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I had one tournament player who knew I was against a deadline to leave, draw the game out. Life's too short to care much though. I was up, winning pretty big at the time too. Tough to drag out skulking, but he managed it nicely. Meh. -- jim
If, on your European tour of tournys, you get to play in France this is a tactic used by some (not all) French players.:(
 

Sparafucil3

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If, on your European tour of tournys, you get to play in France this is a tactic used by some (not all) French players.:(
I have seen it used in the US too. I stopped worrying about how I do at tournaments. I am there to meet new people and play ASL. If I win, I can take it. If I lose, it sucks, but I can take that too. -- jim
 

Mister T

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I was the victim too, but i would not say it's deliberate, it's more slow play not specific to tournaments and/or the fear of being overrun. European TDs that refuse to adjudicate and write it a draw doesn't help.
 

hayman

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Nice replay, I liked the flank attack.
Toby’s timed AFV assault against your backfield support weapons was excellent.

Decades of playing this game and I’ve never fired a flamethrower into a hex containing a friendly unit (it’s obviously a direct fire weapon, but never thought to use it in a non-melee commingled hex!).
 
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