Illuminating Rounds: Episode 24: The Hellenic Expedition

Martin Mayers

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We're back again, taking on Toby at the Hellenic Expedition, a scenario with an interesting story.

All the usual nonsense, and our top 5 Annual Scenarios.

Purple Heart Draw was the Campaign. We finished Pegasus Bridge a while back. And it was of course the Booby Trap you activated, not a sniper. On your first deployment attempt. Other than that, perfectly correct :D:D:D

Sam Prior is another weekly opponent of mine and I support your comments. Superb player. Certainly improved my game tremendously by regularly playing him.

A funny story about the youthful looks. For years my wife has mocked me for partaking in this hobby. Joking that it's full of nerds and oddballs (correctly of course). A couple of years back I was playing Sam at Pegasus Bridge over at the Heroes Tournament in Blackpool. She came over on the Saturday evening to have dinner with us in the hotel as she was en-route to a gig.

I got a text later that evening saying - "Hmmm. Sam's very nice. I might have to learn how to play this ASL game".
 
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The Purist

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I noted Dave's comment about the difference between VASL maps and live play with the map orientation.

Since I began playing on VASL a bit less than two months ago I haven't had too much problem with orientation but I have noticed that I occasionally miss a DRM that I would not miss in live play (to the annoyance of my opponents, I'm sure). I am not sure why this happens but I may start placing information counters next to the stacks as I often do in live play and see if that helps.

Congratulation on winning against one of the Titans.
 

JoeArthur

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Late For Chow is, and it is only my opinion, a dog and unwinable for the US player. However some people like it.........

Maybe I am missing something?

Maggot Hill - to avoid the bombardment setup on the hill at the bottom of the map. Not much fun playing the Japs as the US has so many ROF 3 weapons. Why change your mortars for OBA when you can have a ROF of 3? Played it this year for the first time and the Japanese were cut to pieces / wiped from the board.
 
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macrobo

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Hi All

Can anybody reference the thread that discusses this "secret setup" for Hellenic expedition that makes the game a woof woof 🤣- I am still very curious what all the discussion was about and would like to read the thread

Cheers

Rob :)
 

JoeArthur

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Sounds like a challenge! Do you want to take us on? :)
That will teach me to comment :) You're not going to make an AAR out of it are you? In which case you might have to call that episode "A public humiliation".............
 

JoeArthur

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The story is also told here:


"Ah "the Hellenic Expedition" 🤦, I remember at least the scenario. That year some Swedes (basically all Mel's buddies) showed up with the same killer setup and they proudly trounced their respective (mostly non-Swede) opponents using it. I was among the casualties. Essentially we went Greek against our will "

And this comment:

IIRC it was 2009 and i was there. And iirc again Melvin canceled 5 Squads from his OB and... won the Scenario. His Opponent was not amused :wtf:

And from Melvin himself:

I offered my opponent 6 extra British squad and a 7-0 British Leader, he declined the offer and only added 5 addional 4-5-7 squads and the leader.

See link from 2009
http://www.gamesquad.com/forums/index.php?threads/asl-scandinavian-open-2009-scenario-list.80476/page-6

Have done this many times (30+times) throughput the years about once a year, last time in November in the tournament I was about to play Texas T-Patchers and offered to remove a German 4-6-7 squad and a LMG. My opponent accepted the offer.

I like to challenge myself and if I think I got the favoured side I try to balance it up before play. If I play the non-favoured side I see it as a challange and hope my opponent do mistakes , lol.
 

Stewart

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OK...the Setup is "killer"
WHY is the setup killer?
Isn't revealing all of your HIP and then jumping in the buildings counterproductive.
What am I missing here?
I'm thinking if the ALLIES get into a building...centralized...SEARCH and toss the HS away ....all ?ment is gone.
 

daveramsey

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I think part of the issue is that if the Greeks know what the German player is up to, he can rush the buildings and save time for the inevitable tactics required to flush out the concealed HS that will be scattered amongst the rear two buildings. This might make a game of it.

If the Greek is cautious on the first turn (avoiding potential losses due to hipsters that aren't actually there), a lost turn and the extra effects of the time needed to pry out the defenders seems to push the favour heavily towards the Germans.

Of course, the double-bluff defence of an up-front all-hip setup would make for an interesting test...

From my perspective our game was close (albeit with players of differing abilities) but it made for a fun afternoon of ASL.

That will teach me to comment :) You're not going to make an AAR out of it are you? In which case you might have to call that episode "A public humiliation".............
Of course! But think of the glory if/when you beat us!
 

JoeArthur

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Of course! But think of the glory if/when you beat us!
OK Dave - you're on. I will now have played that scenario three times. This will be the first as the Germans. It was selected by Francois for his ASL Ring tourny so I played it in Blackpool against Craig for tourny practice. Craig beat me easily with me playing the US. I thought, let's give it another go and played on VASL and lost - as the US again. It's a dog - however that might be my excuse for not understanding it.:unsure:

My appearance fee is entry into your tourny please :) I cannot say that I am that keen to play it three times so I require an incentive..................
 

daveramsey

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My appearance fee is entry into your tourny please :) I cannot say that I am that keen to play it three times so I require an incentive..................
Gotta be a patron for that pleasure! But we'd be happy to play you, us taking the US, probably sometime in August.
 

Tuomo

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Yikes. What a shitshow. Leaving aside the discussion of what constitutes good or bad behavior in the context of that situation, I think this scenario offers a good example of Things To Be Careful Of in scenario design (VC's that involve multi-hex multi-level building control, VC buildings way in the back, mutually supporting and surrounded by Runways, defender has tons of HIP options, etc). I find myself being more curious about how to fix the scenario than how to play it as the Greeks against the Secret Evil Defense.

But yeah, I too wondered why that defense would be so Evil. It would seem to be a good thing for the attacker to see the defender reveal all of his HIP units without firing a shot. (It would probably up the Evil Factor for the Germans here to let the Greeks have a turn or two of cautious movement before he revealed his units, but whatever).

As an attacker, I tend to be as aggressive as I can be, up to the point where I've paid "enough" of a price, but I also want to take advantage of the openings that may occur because that price was paid. I call that a "greedy" algorithm. So as the Greeks here, I'd probably CX everybody and take chance after chance on turn 1, whistling past the graveyard time after time and growing increasingly puzzled as I got away with every move, but bemusedly pleased that my moves were going unchecked.

But perhaps the Germans did have some picket defenders. If the Greeks have 12 attacking squads, I'd probably push until, say, 3 of them were broken. If those 3 happen to occur in the first 5 moves, well, Squads 6-9 will probably move more cautiously just so I can get something established on turn 1, and if they've survived, maybe by then I'd take more chances with Squads 10 through 12, because the defenders who trashed Squads 1-3 may have shot their bolts and it would be bad play to not take advantage of those opportunities to move outside of SFF range or a fixed Covered Arc.

Shrug. Lesson for Dave and Martin: don't pick scenarios that give Toby bad flashbacks!
 

Toby Pilling

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Toby LIKES bad flashbacks?
As I said in the episode, I wasn't there when this all happened. I had an opinion, which I expressed in the thread above, as did many other people - that's all water under the bridge now and it's probably not worth picking at scabs to uncover old wounds.
I'd always wanted to play the scenario though and thought it would be an interesting talking point for Illuminating Rounds, as we'd been discussing scenario balance. That's all.
 

Gamer72

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Nice replay, I liked the flank attack.
Regarding Annual scenarios, I recommend The Island to you, from Annual ‘90 iirc. Rocket OBA and Tigers against Sextons (?) and 17-lb’ers. Great stuff.
 
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