Illuminating Rounds: Episode 20 - Live Urban Guerillas

daveramsey

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Youtube's finally finished its processing, so for anyone who'd like to watch the full game of Urban Guerillas (tell us what we could have done better, tactically, or stream-wise) it's here:


I really felt like VASL is let down, in this era of stream-friendly games, by its lack of customisable background colour (the white is a bit too much on a stream like this) and rotatable boards (it would have been nicer to fill the whole screen with the action).

We were perplexed by the two journals having different armor leaders for the Germans - anyone know what's up with that?!

Anyway - we had a great time and the game really couldn't have been closer.

Enjoy!
 

bendizoid

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Thanks for the replay. Fyi, when a vehicle successfully does a motion attempt you get a ‘free’ spin to help get out of trouble, makes a huge difference in the case of the panther parking behind the wall and the t34 trying to get away, important to know. As a defender it’s nice to pick spot next to an obstacle or two to spin toward for the bypass getaway. Frankly, it can become most annoying and makes it difficult to nail a tank down, lol. This in turn makes the ‘short halt’ (for a bounding AFV) 2 MP in LOS and stop thing even more crucial for any prowling monster tank.
Might also be a good try for the SD6* one time use smoke on the back of the t34/85 counter.
 
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pwashington

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Was able to watch the first half. Will have to watch the remainder.

I believe an SR for this scenario indicated unlimited sDs for the T3485s.
 

lightspeed

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Another very enjoyable episode.

Sadly, I had to leave to join a ridiculous meeting just before the last CC phase. Thanks for posting!

It looks interesting, and I've put J1 on my playlist. For what it's worth, my copy has a 9-2 AL for the Germans.

indy
 

bendizoid

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Yes, it's SSR 3. It gives me one more reason to love the T34/85.

indy
Yes, and another reason to reread D13.2, last sentence. Best move for a t34 that finds a hull down panther tank parking in front if it might be, go motion attempt, if successful spin VCA for a getaway, try for sD.
 

Tuomo

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Yep, if that T-34 had spun his VCA to direction 4 on the motion attempt (or even in his DFPh as a free CA change in lieu of firing), he could have ducked out of the Panther's LOS in his first MP.

In Russian turn 2, the other T-34's move to 23X9 to distract the Panther was a very nice move, IMO, and stood a chance of saving his brother tank, even without that guy being able to duck out of LOS on his first MP. But when the Panther gets ROF like he did, well, there ain't no good moves anyway.
 

Tuomo

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Oh heck, in for a penny...

Great entertainment value here, gents. Convinced me to become a patron; watching you guys is certainly worth my entertainment dollar.

I'll skip criticism of the setups. Here's some various things I noted in the first two turns. All points intended respectfully, of course, and not just trying to be a snarky know-it-all.

Russian Turn 1 -
PFPh - not sure what the T-34 was hoping to achieve with that prep fire. Odds didn't seem good. I'd rather see him doing something more helpful like Armored Assaulting with the infantry, putting down some sD smoke, or simply probing the left flank where there's so much open space.

DFPh - That PSK shot against the infantry in I9 seemed ill-advised; they needed a 4 to connect and wound up X'ing out a very useful antitank asset.

APh - Would have been good for the Russians to advance somebody from 22J9 to I9, just to get a leg up on next turn's movement to advance to the wall around the factory. That 348 in Z10 wasn't much threat to prep fire at anybody in the upcoming German turn, and in fact somebody in I9 could have fired at the 348 as he tried to fall back behind the factory wall.

German Turn 1 -
PFPh - Didn't seem necessary to Prep Fire at the Partisan Hero; the Germans lost Concealment and risked activating the Sniper and instead could have waited until the CCPh to crush that guy. Sure there were some backfield moves that the Hero could interfere with, but not much, and the 658's could even just try throwing infantry smoke at the guy if they really felt like it was necessary.

MPh - Not sure why the Hero didn't First Fire at the Germans as they Bypassed at the 23W6/W5/X5 vertex instead of waiting till X4; I think that would have been a 1(-3) shot instead of the 1(-1) shot he wound up taking at X4. Heck, along those lines, the Bypass itself was unnecessary, since the Germans could have just moved V6-V5-W5-X4 and stayed in Orchards the whole time anyway. FWIW, the Russian HMG had LOS to both this move and the Bypass move; would have really been nice to score an 8-down-3 shot at the German 8-1 and 658 as they moved from V6.

- No shot from the 248 in EE10 at the 348 moving into Z9? 1-down-1 seemed worth it...

- The German HT really should have just Buttoned Up during his move and unbuttoned in the APh; would have saved him from being shot at by the Russian HMG. It also seemed like S10 or thereabouts might have been a better place to go than where he did (V8?). Out of LOS from the Russian HMG but still covered the Russian approach to the wall outside the Factory. If the Russians diverted anybody to go pressure him, they'd be diluting their main attack.

DFPh - nice move firing into the Melee

AFPh - still no need to fire at the Partisan Hero! He's Marked For Death in the upcoming CCPh!

Russian turn 2
PFPh - I didn't think the HMG had LOS to the 348. On my VASL board, the LOS crosses Z10 and would have 2 blind hexes.

MPh - Nice move with the T-34 to distract the Panther. I think some German infantry hugging the wall outside the Factory would have been useful in terms of denying the Wall to the Russians. Couldn't help note Dave saying "You get all the luck" after his Panther scored after needing a turret hit on a TH DR of 6 (which I think had just a 7/36 chance of success) :) That German HT could have tried kicking into Motion at some point; might have helped his survival.

Russian turn 3
MPh - When the Russian stack moved to W10, I'd have been sorely tempted to try a shot from CC9. Turns out the LOS is blocked, but IMO it was worth trying.

Tough call to make on whether the Panther should stay or go (ie, make a motion attempt) when the IS-2's rolled up. He needed to get a turret hit and with a TK of 5. To me, that's when it's time to try to live and fight another day. And being a large target, even at > 2 hex range from those AFPh shots, he's valuable enough to think about throwing sN9 smoke to help protect himself. If we WAS gonna stand and die, then I'd think some Intensive Firing might be called for.

The Panther passed up a shot at the T-34 as it moved to the Russian left, I think in J8; I think he ultimately needed like an 8 to hit with a near-guaranteed kill. Seemed worth taking; those 9-2 AL's sure do make a difference.

CCPh - Withdrawing on the CC DR of 12 was a good idea but I didn't think Y8 was the best place to go to. I could see X8 for a short-lived but glorious attempt to get a turret hit on the IS-2 in X9, but that would pretty much guarantee handing the Russians a captured PSK once that guy died. I think X6 would have been better, in terms of living to fight another day and perhaps providing some flank protection for the bridge against the Russian armor.
 

bendizoid

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Oh heck, in for a penny...

Great entertainment value here, gents. Convinced me to become a patron; watching you guys is certainly worth my entertainment dollar.

I'll skip criticism of the setups. Here's some various things I noted in the first two turns. All points intended respectfully, of course, and not just trying to be a snarky know-it-all.

Russian Turn 1 -
PFPh - not sure what the T-34 was hoping to achieve with that prep fire. Odds didn't seem good. I'd rather see him doing something more helpful like Armored Assaulting with the infantry, putting down some sD smoke, or simply probing the left flank where there's so much open space.

DFPh - That PSK shot against the infantry in I9 seemed ill-advised; they needed a 4 to connect and wound up X'ing out a very useful antitank asset.

APh - Would have been good for the Russians to advance somebody from 22J9 to I9, just to get a leg up on next turn's movement to advance to the wall around the factory. That 348 in Z10 wasn't much threat to prep fire at anybody in the upcoming German turn, and in fact somebody in I9 could have fired at the 348 as he tried to fall back behind the factory wall.

German Turn 1 -
PFPh - Didn't seem necessary to Prep Fire at the Partisan Hero; the Germans lost Concealment and risked activating the Sniper and instead could have waited until the CCPh to crush that guy. Sure there were some backfield moves that the Hero could interfere with, but not much, and the 658's could even just try throwing infantry smoke at the guy if they really felt like it was necessary.

MPh - Not sure why the Hero didn't First Fire at the Germans as they Bypassed at the 23W6/W5/X5 vertex instead of waiting till X4; I think that would have been a 1(-3) shot instead of the 1(-1) shot he wound up taking at X4. Heck, along those lines, the Bypass itself was unnecessary, since the Germans could have just moved V6-V5-W5-X4 and stayed in Orchards the whole time anyway. FWIW, the Russian HMG had LOS to both this move and the Bypass move; would have really been nice to score an 8-down-3 shot at the German 8-1 and 658 as they moved from V6.

- No shot from the 248 in EE10 at the 348 moving into Z9? 1-down-1 seemed worth it...

- The German HT really should have just Buttoned Up during his move and unbuttoned in the APh; would have saved him from being shot at by the Russian HMG. It also seemed like S10 or thereabouts might have been a better place to go than where he did (V8?). Out of LOS from the Russian HMG but still covered the Russian approach to the wall outside the Factory. If the Russians diverted anybody to go pressure him, they'd be diluting their main attack.

DFPh - nice move firing into the Melee

AFPh - still no need to fire at the Partisan Hero! He's Marked For Death in the upcoming CCPh!

Russian turn 2
PFPh - I didn't think the HMG had LOS to the 348. On my VASL board, the LOS crosses Z10 and would have 2 blind hexes.

MPh - Nice move with the T-34 to distract the Panther. I think some German infantry hugging the wall outside the Factory would have been useful in terms of denying the Wall to the Russians. Couldn't help note Dave saying "You get all the luck" after his Panther scored after needing a turret hit on a TH DR of 6 (which I think had just a 7/36 chance of success) :) That German HT could have tried kicking into Motion at some point; might have helped his survival.

Russian turn 3
MPh - When the Russian stack moved to W10, I'd have been sorely tempted to try a shot from CC9. Turns out the LOS is blocked, but IMO it was worth trying.

Tough call to make on whether the Panther should stay or go (ie, make a motion attempt) when the IS-2's rolled up. He needed to get a turret hit and with a TK of 5. To me, that's when it's time to try to live and fight another day. And being a large target, even at > 2 hex range from those AFPh shots, he's valuable enough to think about throwing sN9 smoke to help protect himself. If we WAS gonna stand and die, then I'd think some Intensive Firing might be called for.

The Panther passed up a shot at the T-34 as it moved to the Russian left, I think in J8; I think he ultimately needed like an 8 to hit with a near-guaranteed kill. Seemed worth taking; those 9-2 AL's sure do make a difference.

CCPh - Withdrawing on the CC DR of 12 was a good idea but I didn't think Y8 was the best place to go to. I could see X8 for a short-lived but glorious attempt to get a turret hit on the IS-2 in X9, but that would pretty much guarantee handing the Russians a captured PSK once that guy died. I think X6 would have been better, in terms of living to fight another day and perhaps providing some flank protection for the bridge against the Russian armor.
They asked for it so tell ‘em. It ain’t being a smarty pants.
This is a classic scenerio and I know some people who like to human wave the Russians on turn one, just a thought.
I like to park a T34 across the right bridge and shoot things up until the 88L kills it then use the wreck for cover, maybe even shoot your own wreck with a 122L for permenent smoke to help cross the bridge. Basically in the hex the Mk4 died in,
 
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lightspeed

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Yes, and another reason to reread D13.2, last sentence. Best move for a t34 that finds a hull down panther tank parking in front if it might be, go motion attempt, if successful spin VCA for a getaway, try for sD.
Excellent point! D13.2 is a rule I constantly forget about in the heat of the moment...
and then remember right after the tank generates smoke from the flames lapping up from it!

Also,

Tuomo said "watching you guys is certainly worth my entertainment dollar."

I couldn't agree more...IMHO, it's some of the best ASL content on the internet.

Plus, if you ever get the opportunity to meet Martin or Dave, you should consider
yourself very lucky. They are fabulous people and I'm proud to call them friends.

indy
 

daveramsey

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Thanks everyone. Part of the reason we do this is to improve our game - and having feedback of the quality above is just gold dust. Thanks - it's much appreciated, and if anything we should be subscribing to your patreon game tip services!

I've made some changes for the next stream, including hacking the VASL client to give us a (slightly) better viewing experience, tried to optimise the streaming parameters, for a better quality stream, and even bought a stream deck to aid with transitions, text updates and scene changes.

It was great to get the feedback during the game, and even better that people have enjoyed it a little after the fact, too. Thanks again - we'll be doing it again, soon!
 

Tuomo

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Thanks Dave. Yes, if you could zoom in the map a bit more during play, that'd help. And while it warms my heart to see VASL's "This Guy" red circle used, I wonder if we can get Doug to implement an option where it doesn't recenter the map. Sometimes the recentering is a bit jarring for an observer (or one's opponent). Just showing the red circle might be enough for some

I'd love to be able to download a logfile of the game, too!

Great ending to the game. Can't feel bad about those.
 

bendizoid

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Thanks everyone. Part of the reason we do this is to improve our game - and having feedback of the quality above is just gold dust. Thanks - it's much appreciated, and if anything we should be subscribing to your patreon game tip services!

I've made some changes for the next stream, including hacking the VASL client to give us a (slightly) better viewing experience, tried to optimise the streaming parameters, for a better quality stream, and even bought a stream deck to aid with transitions, text updates and scene changes.

It was great to get the feedback during the game, and even better that people have enjoyed it a little after the fact, too. Thanks again - we'll be doing it again, soon!
You guys kinda have same opponent syndrome. Each of you guys is doing little things, and getting away with it, that another opponent might put an end to. Does the defender win most of your games? I had the same syndrome when I played Eddie Zeman all the time, he’s a excellent player but we were doing or not doing stuff that I learned later playing Tokarz and Summers and Drane...etc
The main thing is fun and a challenge so I think there is plenty of that.
 

daveramsey

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Thanks Dave. Yes, if you could zoom in the map a bit more during play, that'd help. And while it warms my heart to see VASL's "This Guy" red circle used, I wonder if we can get Doug to implement an option where it doesn't recenter the map. Sometimes the recentering is a bit jarring for an observer (or one's opponent). Just showing the red circle might be enough for some

I'd love to be able to download a logfile of the game, too!

Great ending to the game. Can't feel bad about those.
Yeah - I know what you mean about the red circle - the best way to avoid that it seems is to have the map fitting the window perfectly, so there's no where to zoom, but that gives a more zoomed out feeling.

Here's the log file: https://aslscenarioarchive.com/viewFile.php?id=32840

You guys kinda have same opponent syndrome. Each of you guys is doing little things, and getting away with it, that another opponent might put an end to. Does the defender win most of your games?
That a good point, and almost certainly true (I think we're like a comfy pair of slippers to each other).

After 210 games against each other, here's my stats:

Games won: 146
Attacking Win: 67% (100 attempts)
Defending Win: 71.82% (110 attempts)
 

Sparafucil3

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It was great to get the feedback during the game, and even better that people have enjoyed it a little after the fact, too. Thanks again - we'll be doing it again, soon!
I saw you playing live on VASL but I couldn't find the actual stream. Perhaps you could post the URL in your Info, or the room name, or on the scenario archive. Anything to make it easier to find. -- jim
 

daveramsey

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I saw you playing live on VASL but I couldn't find the actual stream. Perhaps you could post the URL in your Info, or the room name, or on the scenario archive. Anything to make it easier to find. -- jim
That's a good point. In future - easiest way is to find our channel (click on our username under any of our youtube videos) and go to videos/live uploads or something. We also posted the link here on gamesquad and facebook, wasn't sure if you can copy and paste from a room name.
 
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