Illuminating Round availability for OBA

[agoldin]

Question for the hive mind:
Consider a Night scenario in which OBA is available. SSR says OBA may use HE and SMOKE. Does that mean Illuminating Rounds (IR) are NOT available?

The specific reason I ask is for the KGP Stoumont CG. Both US and German artillery is specified as having HE and SMOKE (only) without mentioning IR. Can we assume that IR is available without being specified, or is ammunition availability limited to only what is explicitly stated in the SSR?

Thanks

 

[Doug Leslie]

Unless stated otherwise, it has to be specified in the SSR.

E1.93 ILLUMINATING ROUNDS (IR): IR may be fired only via Indirect Fire, and only by OBA/onboard mortars that have IR listed as an available ammo type.

 

[agoldin]

Well, that's pretty clear. Thanks Doug!

 

[Wayne]

E1.93 ILLUMINATING ROUNDS (IR): IR may be fired only via Indirect Fire, and only by OBA/onboard mortars that have IR listed as an available ammo type.

That alone could give an impression that a Chap H Ordnance listing alone suffices and that no SSR is needed, but the OBA rules in Chap C say that you =do= need an SSR.

C1.1 OBA represents a battery ... using ... HE or SMOKE (or IR ...) ... OBA availability is ... defined by SSR ... as to type..."

 

[Gordon]

Doesn't it require a DoMTC (Dave or Martin Task Check) or MorDTC (Martin or Dave Task Check)?
Oh no, another schism in the "Body of ASL", just like the IFT/IIFT schism.

 

[bendizoid]

Question for the hive mind:
Consider a Night scenario in which OBA is available. SSR says OBA may use HE and SMOKE. Does that mean Illuminating Rounds (IR) are NOT available?

The specific reason I ask is for the KGP Stoumont CG. Both US and German artillery is specified as having HE and SMOKE (only) without mentioning IR. Can we assume that IR is available without being specified, or is ammunition availability limited to only what is explicitly stated in the SSR?

Thanks

I’d say yes, OBA can use IRs. Seems like the special ammo requirement in E 1.9 is for the onboard stuff only. That’s the way I play it at least, I don’t ever recall a night scenario SSR that says OBA can shoot IRs because they don’t have to, it’s inherent.

 

[ScottRomanowski]

I think it requires a SSR. Why? Consider the Chapter H DYO OBA tables. For instance, assume the British in the ETO have 80+mm OBA in 1942. There are two different types of 80+mm OBA on the British non-PTO OBA Availability table, one that can fire Smoke, and one that can fire SMOKE and IR. Without a SSR, which one do you use? I'm sure there are other types of OBA; this was just the first I found.

That's why I think OBA requires a SSR in order to have IR capability.

 

[Eagle4ty]

Per E1.93 if it has IR listed as an availability, it is able to fire IR. If the SSR fails as noted fails to mention that a specific OBA type does not have IR capabilities it is poorly written as COWTRA tells one that IR can be utilized for that OBA type.

 

[agoldin]

It seems intuitively obvious that an OBA battery would have IR, but this being ASL, it appears the answer is 'no', or not unless specifically designated. Thanks to everyone for the discussion.

 

[bendizoid]

It seems intuitively obvious that an OBA battery would have IR, but this being ASL, it appears the answer is 'no', or not unless specifically designated. Thanks to everyone for the discussion.

Yes, it is intuitive but not so obvious or else we wouldn’t be talking. I contend IR is available for OBA. Play it the way you think best.
Is there a single night scenario that SSRs in IRs for OBA?

 

[Stewart]

Per E1.93 if it has IR listed as an availability, it is able to fire IR. If the SSR fails as noted fails to mention that a specific OBA type does not have IR capabilities it is poorly written as COWTRA tells one that IR can be utilized for that OBA type.

It's listed as Available....Chap H is after Chap C...I'd think it would need a SSR to say it ISN"T available.
Likely designer screwed the pooch on this one or assumed IR for all or NONE....depending.

 

[bendizoid]

It’s not a nice choice, illuminate a huge area or bring down the schdongst. Nobody wants a IR unless you absolutely need a IR.

What’s that Dinant night scenario with all the French calvary (one of my favorites)? They need IRs real bad to find those bridges.

 

[agoldin]

Checking Chapter H is a good thought. Unfortunately neither of the OBA calibers I have on my table of possibilities (120mm nor 150mm) have IR listed as an option, so the SSRs make sense in this case.
Thanks again.

 

[bendizoid]

Checking Chapter H is a good thought. Unfortunately neither of the OBA calibers I have on my table of possibilities (120mm nor 150mm) have IR listed as an option, so the SSRs make sense in this case.
Thanks again.

Do any ?

 

[bendizoid]

After close scrutiny of the nationalities ‘Rat pack’ charts I see no mention of any IRs for any nationalitie’s OBA. Maybe that’s because they are inherent for all nationalities or hardly ever does anybody get them.

 

[bendizoid]

Here is my 105H 1953 dated Illum projectile. Interesting notes, the fuze assy thread diameter is 1.7" as opposed to the modern 2.0". Early Illum rounds were colored grey with white. Modern era are white with black lettering. I am not sure when the thread diameter changed, but think the 1.7" was used prior to the 60's, later 2.0" fuze diameter type.

I know it says 1953 but I think they had them in ‘39.

 

[klasmalmstrom]

Is there a single night scenario that SSRs in IRs for OBA?

What’s that Dinant night scenario with all the French calvary (one of my favorites)? They need IRs real bad to find those bridges.

DN8...in that one "IR" is spelled out in the SSR..

 

[ibncalb]

It’s not a nice choice, illuminate a huge area or bring down the schdongst. Nobody wants a IR unless you absolutely need a IR.

From memory (ahem) some CGs don't treat the module as used if only IR are fired during a scenario. So there is the economy aspect.

 

[Stewart]

DN8...in that one "IR" is spelled out in the SSR..

View attachment 24074

Chap H reflects this information.
It's likely to be a reminder of availability.
(Vichy) French has no 80mm IR ammo available for the time frame.
The German does.