IFT Results

[jshultis]

I think this is a simple one, but need some clarification;

When a K/# result is obtained on the IFT, is the casualty reduction HS placed on the board in a "broken" state? As well, I'm assuming that it needs to undergo the required MC (for instance, a good order mmc would be reduced to a "broken" HS, then need to undergo a +4 MC if the result was K/4)?

Who determines which units in a hex are used to satifiy a K or KIA result? ASLSK explains this as "randomly determined"?

Thanks for the help,
Jesse

 

[Reepicheep]

Hi Jesse,

When a K/# result is obtained on the IFT, is the casualty reduction HS placed on the board in a "broken" state? As well, I'm assuming that it needs to undergo the required MC (for instance, a good order mmc would be reduced to a "broken" HS, then need to undergo a +4 MC if the result was K/4)?

When a squad suffers CR on account of a K/# result, the resulting HS is placed on the board in a good order state. It is only broken if it then goes on to fail the # MC it must also roll.

Who determines which units in a hex are used to satifiy a K or KIA result? ASLSK explains this as "randomly determined"?

The defender must roll a dr for each eligible unit in that location using the process called "random selection". The highest number dr which affects the necessary number of units is taken.

Probably some examples are easiest to explain it with.

3 units suffer 1 KIA and roll 6,5,3
The unit rolling a 6 is KIA.

3 units suffer 1 KIA and roll 5,5,3
The two units rolling a 5 are KIA.

3 units suffer 2 KIA and roll 6,4,4
All units are KIA, since the 6 would only KIA one unit.

Hope this helps.

 

[pryoung]

When a K/# result is obtained on the IFT, is the casualty reduction HS placed on the board in a "broken" state? As well, I'm assuming that it needs to undergo the required MC (for instance, a good order mmc would be reduced to a "broken" HS, then need to undergo a +4 MC if the result was K/4)?

Who determines which units in a hex are used to satifiy a K or KIA result? ASLSK explains this as "randomly determined"?

Thanks for the help,
Jesse

A half-squad produced by the Casualty Reduction result is not yet broken (unless its parent squad was already broken), but will have to take the morale check generated by that K/4 result.

When you get a K/# result, use random selection (A.9) to pick which unit in the hex is affected. Whichever unit(s) is selected suffers Casualty Reduction (ie, a squad is reduced to a half-squad, a SMC is wounded, a half-squad or crew is eliminated). The unit is not broken at this time. Then, each other target in the Location suffers a #MC (ie, 4MC if the result was a K/4). Note that a SMC wounded by the Casualty Reduction result does not take the subsequent #MC, but a half-squad just reduced from a squad by Casualty Reduction does.

Pete

 

[pryoung]

When a squad suffers CR on account of a K/# result, the resulting HS is placed on the board in a good order state. It is only broken if it then goes on to fail the # MC it must also roll.

Note that the resulting HS will be place onboard unbroken only if its parent squad was unbroken. If a squad selected for CR is already broken, the resulting HS will be broken too, even before it takes the resulting #MC.

Pete

 

[Reepicheep]

When a squad suffers CR on account of a K/# result, the resulting HS is placed on the board in a good order state. It is only broken if it then goes on to fail the # MC it must also roll.

Note that the resulting HS will be place onboard unbroken only if its parent squad was unbroken. If a squad selected for CR is already broken, the resulting HS will be broken too, even before it takes the resulting #MC.

Pete

Quite right. I was assuming the original question referred to an unbroken squad, but perhaps I shouldn't have made that assumption.

Reep

 

[jshultis]

Hi Jesse,

When a K/# result is obtained on the IFT, is the casualty reduction HS placed on the board in a "broken" state? As well, I'm assuming that it needs to undergo the required MC (for instance, a good order mmc would be reduced to a "broken" HS, then need to undergo a +4 MC if the result was K/4)?

When a squad suffers CR on account of a K/# result, the resulting HS is placed on the board in a good order state. It is only broken if it then goes on to fail the # MC it must also roll.

Who determines which units in a hex are used to satifiy a K or KIA result? ASLSK explains this as "randomly determined"?

The defender must roll a dr for each eligible unit in that location using the process called "random selection". The highest number dr which affects the necessary number of units is taken.

Probably some examples are easiest to explain it with.

3 units suffer 1 KIA and roll 6,5,3
The unit rolling a 6 is KIA.

3 units suffer 1 KIA and roll 5,5,3
The two units rolling a 5 are KIA.

3 units suffer 2 KIA and roll 6,4,4
All units are KIA, since the 6 would only KIA one unit.

Hope this helps.

Understanding the above example, it seems that on a 1 KIA, if two units roll the same number, which happens to be the highest amount, both are KIA? So, its possible to have more CR and KIA than the IFT result allocates. I apologize if I continue to go through the same issue, but the Starter Kit mentioned random selection, but doesn't explain the process or rules associated with it. The way it is explained above could, without a doubt, affect game result.

Thanks
Jesse

 

[Brian W]

Understanding the above example, it seems that on a 1 KIA, if two units roll the same number, which happens to be the highest amount, both are KIA? So, its possible to have more CR and KIA than the IFT result allocates.

In ASL this is correct. I do not have ASLSK to compare the rules.

 

[SamB]

In ASL this is correct. I do not have ASLSK to compare the rules.

I have the starter kit and don't see "random selection" spelled out the way it'd defined in ASL. However, under "KIA" it says "at least as many" units are KIA, which does imply that more than the number result could be affected.

I suspect this is an omission from the starter kit rules. A question to MMP would get an official answer, but I'd play it the way the folks above have explained it.

Sam

 

[Brian W]

I suspect this is an omission from the starter kit rules. A question to MMP would get an official answer, but I'd play it the way the folks above have explained it.

I asked over on consimworld and got this response:

The random selection in ASLSK is not the random selection of ASL (wherein ties mean bad things if you are on the recieving end). ASLSK simply declares the need for Random Selection, the process is to be ...well... random.

So, random selection is not defined in ASLSK as one might traditionally expect from the ASL RB.

 

[SamB]

Thanks. But I went ahead and posted the question to MMP. Along with one about the fact that the starter kit says that a CX unit applies a +1 DRM to "every dr DR" which would include morale checks, etc..

 

[SamB]

I got answers from Perry to my quesitons. I posted them on my web http://dicetower.com under "Perry Sez". I created a new page for the starter kit.

Here are my quesitons, and Perry's replies.

ASL Starter Kit Rule 3.2.1 (April 2004)

Under the KIA and K/# results the rule says that the specific units affected are "randomly determined". The KIA also adds that "at least as many" targets are affected. Which seems to imply the ASL "Random Selection" procedure.

No, it does not imply that.

But the rule book doesn't seem to say anywhere _HOW_ unit(s) are randomly selected. Is this an oversight? Should the ASL random selection procedure be used, or are players to decide among themselves what procedure to use?

Do not use Random Selection. Do select randomly.

ASL Starter Kit Rule 3.3 (April 2004)

It states that a CX unit applies a +1 to \"any dr or DR\" it makes. As stated this would apply to morale checks, task checks, and other DR that aren't affected by CX in ASL. Is this a mistake, or a deliberate change to simplify the rules.

Morale checks and pin task checks are unaffected by CX.

 

[Georgii2222]

Note that a SMC wounded by the Casualty Reduction result does not take the subsequent #MC, but a half-squad just reduced from a squad by Casualty Reduction does.

Pete

Wait, I had to take a double-take on this one. Why would the wounded leader not be subject to the MC?

 

[Larry]

Because that is what the rules for ASL say happens.

 

[pryoung]

Wait, I had to take a double-take on this one. Why would the wounded leader not be subject to the MC?

To quote directly from A7.302, "At least one target unit suffers Casualty Reduction in each specifically targeted Location and all other target units (including any just-Reduced HS) must take a MC, adding the number indicated (#) to the MC DR."

Note the word "other" and the parenthetical exception for HS. Don't know why it was written this way, but it does excuse SMCs who suffer the Casualty Reduction from taking the subsequent MC.

Pete

 

[Reepicheep]

In my opinion, a SMC getting wounded is penalty enough. 1/3 chance it dies right off. And if it doesn't die, it's down to 3 MF a turn, can't declare double time, it's morale is permanently lower by 1 and its leadership modifier is one worse than it was. Crippling, in many cases.

 

[Georgii2222]

To quote directly from A7.302, "At least one target unit suffers Casualty Reduction in each specifically targeted Location and all other target units (including any just-Reduced HS) must take a MC, adding the number indicated (#) to the MC DR."

Note the word "other" and the parenthetical exception for HS. Don't know why it was written this way, but it does excuse SMCs who suffer the Casualty Reduction from taking the subsequent MC.

Pete

Interesting. I had never noticed this before. Thanks!

 

[Robin Reeve]

... and the A.9 (Random selection) example in the Rulebook shows a leader wounded by a K result not taking the ensuing MC.