If you had only the choice of one HASL to play, which would it be?

[Steve H]

The most fun I have had with a HASL is with my own design of a CG based on Iwo Jima. I would love to make it available to everyone someday....but the chore of concisely writing up all the rules proves too daunting.

What map are you using? An HASL one or do you use geoboards?

 

[criticalhit]

ALL OF THEM.

 

[Honza]

What map are you using? An HASL one or do you use geoboards?

I designed and printed my own.

 

[Ralph Malf]

It’s those hillock rules that get me !

Here's a link to Jim Bishops EmRR article which specifically addresses the Hatten In Flames EmRRs.

Embankment Railroads – The Bishop Says

Views: 80A lot of people have been playing Hatten in Flames, a super fun campaign game published by Multi-Man Publishing and designed by Andy Rogers. A lot of these players soon turn to ASL forums looking for help on how to play the Embanked Railroad (EmRR) running down the southern side of the...

jekl.com

Hillock LOS Graphic – The Bishop Says (jekl.com)

I don't have enough experience with CGs to answer the original question although I am leaning towards the smaller ones.

 

[Neal]

It’s those hillock rules that get me !

There are no hillock (or slope) rules in Hatten In Flames. The SSRs for that CG are pretty basic, about 2 pages if I recall.

I will reserve an answer until I play Drop Zone: Sainte-Mère-Église ... which I'm very much excited about.

 

[Faded 8-1]

The hillock rules come into play in Hatten with the Embankment RRs. See the link to Jim Bishop's article posted by Ralph Malf.

Kind of unfortunate in that the rest of the module is pretty straight-forward rules-wise with nothing too complex, then you get to the EmRR and get hit with the whammy-stick.

Jim's article is worth printing out and keeping with your HiF rules for that reason.

I thought it was amusing that he recommends reverse-engineering LOS for both Hillock and EmRR by using the ample example of play, finding units on it that have a similar situation to your units in-game, and figuring it out that way. Which is probably the easiest and best way to go about it.

 

[klasmalmstrom]

Kind of unfortunate in that the rest of the module is pretty straight-forward rules-wise with nothing too complex, then you get to the EmRR and get hit with the whammy-stick.

What was/is unfortunate (IMO) was that the EmRR did not get its own rule, instead of "re-using" the Hillock rules (which weren't really written from long, single-hex wide "hillocks"). But that ship sailed a long time ago.

 

[Paul John]

Yah, the application of the hillock rules that Jim suggests create a real monster. A winding single hex wide hillock should be treated like a winding wall. I think he overinterprets the point that it is all one hillock. Perhaps correct by the rules, but makes absolutely no internal consistency when los can cross the hillock-then open ground-then hillock, etc as many times as one wants when starting adjacent to a hillock, but can only cross a hillock once and only to the next hex if the viewing unit is stepped back a hex. Crossing an open ground hex should be considered encountering a new hillock each time it happens. That is certainly my house rule. Has Andy ever chimed in on this?

 

[klasmalmstrom]

...Crossing an open ground hex should be considered encountering a new hillock each time it happens.

I agree, that's how the Hillock rules should have been written...granted, I think there might only be a single Hillock overlay where this can occur, so it might not have been considered at the time those rules were written.

 

[Gordon]

Agreed, the EmRR rules should have been written as a 40 meter "wide wall."

 

[Jwil2020]

A friend of mine and I are preparing to play HiF for the first time. As Faded pointed out above, the relative simplicity of the terrain (all level 0 except for the steeple and off-board spotters) was a plus to this particular HASL CG. No complicated LOS issues to worry about.

Jim Bishop's EmRR article made me give it a second look. Until now my only encounter with this peculiar terrain was in an SK scenario.

In S31, "Going to New York," the EmRR rule was added via SSR. Obviously less verbose than F6, it seems to make the embanked RR essentially a "wide wall" than a unit can "perch" upon (and therefore see over) and traverse from one hex to another. Yet it blocks LOS to any unit not so perched, unless in an adjacent hex. At least that is how my opponent and I interpreted the SSR:

(The EmRR) "is a "half-level" obstacle. A unit not on an EmRR has its LOS blocked by the EmRR depiction in any non-adjacent hex to all non-EmRR hexes beyond the first hex after the EmRR hex of the depiction crossed... It costs 2MF to enter am EmRR hex unless entering from an adjacent EmRR hex in which case it costs 1 MF. EmRR hexes provide no TEM benefits."

Of course, SK has no fortifications (although it does have emplacement) to complicate LOS issues.

Having grown up in a rural area with many embanked rail beds nearby, the idea of a high wall that blocks view across the embankment, while not affecting the view for units (AKA teenagers) walking along the embankment, is what I envision the EmRR rule should be attempting to replicate.

JMHO.

 

[zgrose]

If we're tossing suggestion into the pot, I suggest EmRR not be considered Inherent Terrain to resolve the other glaring issue.

 

[Paul John]

A friend of mine and I are preparing to play HiF for the first time.

I would encourage you to go for it. Hatten is super fun and the EmRR is not that big a deal. Just play it as a wide wall and you'll be glad to have taken the plunge.

 

[Andrew Rogers]

Yah, the application of the hillock rules that Jim suggests create a real monster. A winding single hex wide hillock should be treated like a winding wall. I think he overinterprets the point that it is all one hillock. Perhaps correct by the rules, but makes absolutely no internal consistency when los can cross the hillock-then open ground-then hillock, etc as many times as one wants when starting adjacent to a hillock, but can only cross a hillock once and only to the next hex if the viewing unit is stepped back a hex. Crossing an open ground hex should be considered encountering a new hillock each time it happens. That is certainly my house rule. Has Andy ever chimed in on this?

Mr Paul John, in designing Hatten in Flames I wished to make the minimal number of SSRs to allow players to "dive into" the scenarios/CGs as quickly as possible. Based on a number of comments (via this forum and others) this goal seemed to have been achieved. A problem did emerge with the embanked railroad on the south side of the map because the rules covering them were not the best and not "internally consistent" (the example you highlighted is the classic one). That said, the rules are largely playable and achieve the historical flavor of the battle by separating the south side of the battlespace from the village proper. In short, I kept with my mantra of sticking with existing rules (thus minimising SSRs) if they align with how the battle played out.

 

[rdw5150]

Late to this party.....

My buddy and I played day one of the CG before real life made us write it all down and take it down and then another buddy and I played several of the scenarios. The railroad got all three of us....... it really got to the point where it was just frustrating trying to figure it all out ("Ok I am here in this hex and the LOS passes through that RR hex to that unit, so LOS is good, no wait it passed through two RR hexes but I am not adjacent to the RR so LOS is not good, etc. etc.). I am just generalizing. Point is, it was a pain. The whole, think of it as a one hex wide wall works until it starts to curve around. In OTO at least it was just a straight line bisecting the map.

Peace

Roger

PS: one of my friends and I decided to house rule and just use the artwork, it made things better

 

[rdw5150]

If we're tossing suggestion into the pot, I suggest EmRR not be considered Inherent Terrain to resolve the other glaring issue.

This is what my one buddy and I did (we used the artwork) and what I am going to suggest to the other when we start the CG again.

 

[phlegm027]

The most fun I have had with a HASL is with my own design of a CG based on Iwo Jima. I would love to make it available to everyone someday....but the chore of concisely writing up all the rules proves too daunting.

 

[phlegm027]

Dinant. I played it for 20 years.

 

[Jwil2020]

As I noted above, and elsewhere, I think that manipulating the Hillock rules to apply to an embanked railroad is unnecessarily confusing, not to mention unrealistic. I've seen many embanked railroads. In almost every case, seeing something on the other side of the tracks is not possible unless one climbs up the embankment itself to peer over. Of course, there are also examples of EmRRs only a few feet above ground level that would not block such views. (But wouldn't such a low lying RR simply be treated like a normal road)?

Nevertheless, for simplcity reasons, it could be assumed that In game terms the embankment is essentially a wide 3/4 level wall. Wide enough to allow a unit to 'perch' on top, and see over, but high enough to block LOS between units not on top on either side of the EmRR artwork unless either or both have a height advantage.

Just my ruminations. I have no illusions the rule will be modified anytime soon, if ever. Best just to deal with the complications in the few times they come up in a game in the meantime.