IF/Sustained Fire Restrictions in First/Final Fire

[ScottD]

Some questions I've always had but never really gotten around to determining the answer for:

The ASLRB clearly says a unit that uses Intensive Fire is limited to adjacent/same hex targets in Final Fire.
1) Is this true during First Fire, too?

I believe an IFE-capable weapon can use Sustained Fire during First/Final Fire (as well as Prep).
2) Is an IFE-capable weapon using Sustained Fire during the First Fire phase limited to adjacent/same hex targets, or is it treated like Subsequent Fire in that it must fire at the closest Known Enemy Unit?

Thanks for any help. Rules quotes, q&as greatly appreciated.

ScottD

 

[Brian W]

The ASLRB clearly says a unit that uses Intensive Fire is limited to adjacent/same hex targets in Final Fire.
1) Is this true during First Fire, too?

No. Intensive Fire can be used in the MPh regardless of range. It is not SFF.

I believe an IFE-capable weapon can use Sustained Fire during First/Final Fire (as well as Prep).
2) Is an IFE-capable weapon using Sustained Fire during the First Fire phase limited to adjacent/same hex targets, or is it treated like Subsequent Fire in that it must fire at the closest Known Enemy Unit?

It is SFF per A8.3. Note also that sustained fire is only available during Defensive (First) Fire.

 

[Jazz]

The ASLRB clearly says a unit that uses Intensive Fire is limited to adjacent/same hex targets in Final Fire.
1) Is this true during First Fire, too?

No. Intensive Fire can be used in the MPh regardless of range. It is not SFF.

I believe an IFE-capable weapon can use Sustained Fire during First/Final Fire (as well as Prep).
2) Is an IFE-capable weapon using Sustained Fire during the First Fire phase limited to adjacent/same hex targets, or is it treated like Subsequent Fire in that it must fire at the closest Known Enemy Unit?

It is SFF per A8.3. Note also that sustained fire is only available during Defensive (First) Fire.

I seem to remember that intensive fire required that you be shooting at the nearest enemy unit. A quick look at the good book and I don't see such a restriction. Anybody have a rules quote or have I been playing this wrong?

 

[Brian W]

I seem to remember that intensive fire required that you be shooting at the nearest enemy unit. A quick look at the good book and I don't see such a restriction. Anybody have a rules quote or have I been playing this wrong?

Besides the restriction during Final Fire, IF is not restricted because it is not a form of subsequent first fire. It is a type of fire all to its lonesome.

In fact, originally, I played that there was no restriction during Final Fire either, which I believe was the intent. However, when the question came up a few years ago, MMP sided with the Final Fire restriction of adjacent hexes. Just another rule I would change if I owned the rights.

 

[ScottD]

It is SFF per A8.3. Note also that sustained fire is only available during Defensive (First) Fire.

I believe that Sustained Fire is usable during the Prep Fire Phase. I will check the tome and get back to you on this, but at the moment, I respectfully disagree.

(Let me clarify: Sustained Fire is not usable for MGs, but I think it's ok for AFV MAs)

 

[pryoung]

I believe that Sustained Fire is usable during the Prep Fire Phase. I will check the tome and get back to you on this, but at the moment, I respectfully disagree.

(Let me clarify: Sustained Fire is not usable for MGs, but I think it's ok for AFV MAs)

Are you confusing Sustained Fire and Intensive Fire? Sustained Fire (A9.3) reflects a MG (or IFE per A8.3) using SFF/FPF or Final fire and thus can only be used as Defensive fire. Intensive Fire (C5.6) applies to Guns only (not SW) and the only restriction on Phase is the only Opp Firing units can use it in the AFPh.

Pete

 

[ScottD]

Are you confusing Sustained Fire and Intensive Fire? Sustained Fire (A9.3) reflects a MG (or IFE per A8.3) using SFF/FPF or Final fire and thus can only be used as Defensive fire. Intensive Fire (C5.6) applies to Guns only (not SW) and the only restriction on Phase is the only Opp Firing units can use it in the AFPh.

Pete

No. I'm remembering several scenarios of Rocket's Red Glare, where that damn FlakPzr gacked the first shot in the German Prep, then used Sustained Fire, which invariably crushed the baz squad that had it lined up in its sights. Granted, after a review of the tome, I'm not seeing anything that would allow it...

 

[Jazz]

Are you confusing Sustained Fire and Intensive Fire? Sustained Fire (A9.3) reflects a MG (or IFE per A8.3) using SFF/FPF or Final fire and thus can only be used as Defensive fire. Intensive Fire (C5.6) applies to Guns only (not SW) and the only restriction on Phase is the only Opp Firing units can use it in the AFPh.

Pete

No. I'm remembering several scenarios of Rocket's Red Glare, where that damn FlakPzr gacked the first shot in the German Prep, then used Sustained Fire, which invariably crushed the baz squad that had it lined up in its sights. Granted, after a review of the tome, I'm not seeing anything that would allow it...

Did the FlakPzr use IFE? In that case I believe that it falls under the sustained fire case (see below). I think though, that sustained fire can only happen as subsequent/final fire so during prep it wouldn't work?

A9.3 SUSTAINED FIRE: If a MG that attacks using Subsequent-First-Fire/FPF (8.3/8.31), or during the DFPh while marked with a First Fire counter (8.4) is using Sustained Fire and as a consequence its B# is lowered by two (see A.11) in addition to its FP being halved as Area Fire. Sustained Fire cannot be used by a vehicular MG [EXC: MA, as per 8.4], nor if firing as ordnance, nor by a MG fired by a lone SMC. Sustained Fire always forfeits any chance for additional shots during the current phase [EXC: FPF 8.31] and results in a Final (or Prep; E7.5) Fire counter being placed on the weapon, regardless of its Multiple ROF and the colored dr. Q&A



C2.29 INFANTRY FIREPOWER EQUIVALENT (IFE): This is a special option afforded certain Guns with a high ROF. Any number appearing in parentheses is that Gun's IFE, which is used directly on the IFT in lieu of using the normal TH procedure. A Gun using IFE has its Multiple ROF reduced by one for that shot (cumulative with all other ROF reductions). IFE may neither establish a Fire Lane nor attack an AFV on the AP TK Table, must pay TH Case A DRM as IFT DRM when changing CA to fire (D3.52), may not make a Snap Shot (A8.15), is not subject to Cowering (A7.9), may not form/participate-in a FG [EXC: as per D6.64], may not be directed by a non-armor leader [EXC: as per D6.65], may not attempt Deliberate Immobilization or use/gain/retain Acquisition (6.5), and is not subject to Mandatory Fire Direction (A9.4). IFE may use Spraying Fire (A9.5), and Bore Sighting (6.44) if otherwise allowed, but may not use both simultaneously. IFE has a Normal Range of 16 hexes (and halved FP from 17 to 32 hexes). *When using IFE, a weapon is not considered ordnance and is subject to Sustained Fire - not Intensive Fire - penalties as per A9.3. * Q&A

 

[Anonymous]

So sustained fire occurs only in Mph/D1F?

Just to be sure I had to ask.

If I first fire my MG in D1F, I cannot sustain fire it in the Defensive/Final Fire phase?

If I retain rate (ROF) with an MG in D1F, I can still fire it normally in Defensive/Final Fire Phase?

 

[Jazz]

Re: So sustained fire occurs only in Mph/D1F?

Just to be sure I had to ask.

If I first fire my MG in D1F, I cannot sustain fire it in the Defensive/Final Fire phase?

If I retain rate (ROF) with an MG in D1F, I can still fire it normally in Defensive/Final Fire Phase?

The first sentence of A9.3 above says you can sustained fire a MG in the Dfire Phase if it has a first fire counter on it.

 

[Anonymous]

Sustained MG fire - what phases?

Hi,

Ok:

Can I ever sustain fire an AFV MG?
Can I ever sustain fire an MG in Prep?

I read examples of firing a MG sustain fired in D1F and DFF, so I'm pretty sure it's ok there. (Night rules XOP)

 

[Brian W]

Re: Sustained MG fire - what phases?

Can I ever sustain fire an AFV MG?
Can I ever sustain fire an MG in Prep?

Yes, you can use Sustained fire with a vehiclular MG if the MG is a MA/SA.
No, you may not use Sustained Fire in the PFPh.

Sustained fire occurs only when using a MG (or an IFE capable weapon) in conjunction with Subsequent First Fire (including Final Protective Fire) and when used in Final Fire while marked with a First Fire counter.

Note that a vehiclular MG cannot use Subsequent First Fire (only Infantry can use SFF), so that limits a vehicular MG (which still must be the vehicle's MA/SA) to sustained fire only as Final Fire.

 

[Anonymous]

Ok, got it. Thanks.

Thanks, very helpful!