If a leader makes a MOL (molotov cocktail) check and fails, may he still use his leadership modifier?

Sand Bar Bill

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#1
If a leader attempts to roll for a Molotov cocktail and fails, may he still add his leadership modifier to the squad he is with? Rule 22.611 does not address.

(The situation was a 3-4-7 squad with a 2-7 LMG and a 8-1 leader. It was useless for the squad to roll for the MOL because they would be unable to use their LMG , and hence a "wash", even if they did get a Molotov cocktail.)
 

jrv

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#2
If a leader attempts to roll for a Molotov cocktail and fails, may he still add his leadership modifier to the squad he is with? Rule 22.611 does not address.

(The situation was a 3-4-7 squad with a 2-7 LMG and a 8-1 leader. It was useless for the squad to roll for the MOL because they would be unable to use their LMG , and hence a "wash", even if they did get a Molotov cocktail.)
A22.611 "A MOL Check dr counts as use of a SW."

A10.7 "A leadership rating .... can never be used ... to direct another unit's fire if the leader is firing a weapon himself."

JR
 

Sand Bar Bill

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#3
A22.611 "A MOL Check dr counts as use of a SW."

A10.7 "A leadership rating .... can never be used ... to direct another unit's fire if the leader is firing a weapon himself."

JR
OK, thanks. Missed the MOL Check dr sentence.
 

jrv

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#4
Yes, I was thinking that. But since he didn't get a Molotov cocktail I was sure that counted as the firing of a weapon. I suppose he was busy though trying to get it going. LOL.
It is the dr that counts as use of a SW, not its successful result. Similarly rolling a dr for a PF counts as use of a SW, and not only when you find one.

JR
 

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#5
That is good news for the two squads receiving fire, because whether the leadership modifier applied or not meant the difference between breaking or just pinning as it turns out!
 

jrv

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#6
That is good news for the two squads receiving fire, because whether the leadership modifier applied or not meant the difference between breaking or just pinning as it turns out!
That's the tradeoff. The leader can point out targets, or he can look in his pockets to see if his lighter is in the pants he has on, but he can't do both. A leadership DRM is (roughly) equivalent to one column on the IFT as is four FP from a MOL (again roughly), so you traded a guaranteed one column shift (and no cowering) for the possibility (a low possibility at that) of a column shift.

JR
 

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#7
That's the tradeoff. The leader can point out targets, or he can look in his pockets to see if his lighter is in the pants he has on, but he can't do both. A leadership DRM is (roughly) equivalent to one column on the IFT as is four FP from a MOL (again roughly), so you traded a guaranteed one column shift (and no cowering) for the possibility (a low possibility at that) of a column shift.

JR
Good point. I was more eager to try out Molotov cocktails than to think of the tradeoff. But you are right, not a worthwhile tactic at the sacrifice of a guaranteed -1 DRM.
 

jrv

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#8
Good point. I was more eager to try out Molotov cocktails than to think of the tradeoff. But you are right, not a worthwhile tactic at the sacrifice of a guaranteed -1 DRM.
I think I wouldn't go that far the other way either. In the right circumstances it might make sense. I don't know your exact situation but with a 3-4-7 & LMG at point-blank range in the PFPh against an unconcealed target the MOL would raise the attack from a guaranteed ten FP (eight FP in IFT land) down one to a possible fourteen FP (twelve FP in IFT land) flat, which is probably not the right move. A 3-4-7 & LMG & -1 leader against a concealed target in the AFPh would have the attack raised from a guaranteed two-and-a-half FP down one to a possible six-and-a-half FP flat, a two column shift on the IFT. That might be worth the gamble (or it might not). You might also roll for MOL from the squad, making the attack one-and-one-half FP down one if you fail the MOL dr or five-and-one-half FP down one if you succeed when the squad rolls vs. two-and-one-half/six-and-one-half flat FP when the leader rolls.

The interesting thing to note is that four FP is always added for MOL, even during the AFPh & vs a concealed target, i.e. the FP added is not subject to modification. That was something that took me a long time to appreciate. Also in that area of the IFT the chances of a K/# or KIA are greater with a -1 DRM but not substantially greater with a column shift, so if you need to cause casualties you might go with the leader regardless. It's a fairly complicated calculation.

JR
 

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#9
May a Squad use IFP, one LMG and roll for MOL? Is not use of two SW?
 

jrv

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#10
May a Squad use IFP, one LMG and roll for MOL? Is not use of two SW?
A squad may either use the LMG or the MOL. If it uses the MOL it *must* use its inherent FP per A22.611 (where it also says a squad may not use any other SW). There is no way to use both the LMG and the MOL. I don't think I suggested using both SW or, heaven forfend, both SW and the inherent FP.

JR
 

mgmasl

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#12
A squad may either use the LMG or the MOL. If it uses the MOL it *must* use its inherent FP per A22.611 (where it also says a squad may not use any other SW). There is no way to use both the LMG and the MOL. I don't think I suggested using both SW or, heaven forfend, both SW and the inherent FP.

JR
Maybe wrong here but I think unit need IFP+LMG+MOL to get 14 FPs at point blank.. IFP plus MOL looks 10
 

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#13
Maybe wrong here but I think unit need IFP+LMG+MOL to get 14 FPs at point blank.. IFP plus MOL looks 10
No es legal. El LMG es un SW y el MOL (mira A22.61 linia does "an inherent SW") es otro SW, entonces la infanteria no puede usar su IFP.
 

mgmasl

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#15
I was wrong clearly.. forgot the use of MOL in place of leadeship by the Leader and not the squad.. too many time without playing ASL.. :facepalm::facepalm:
 

jrv

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#16
I was wrong clearly.. forgot the use of MOL in place of leadeship by the Leader and not the squad.. too many time without playing ASL.. :facepalm::facepalm:
There were lots of cases and numbers flying around. It's good you were checking them.

JR
 
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