Ideas for Starter Kits?

atago44

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And here you go with regards to the "first" TPP.

Apparently first TPP product publication occurred in July 1986. From DM:

"On All Fronts (OAF) is the oldest “third party” publisher of ASL products; in fact, it pre-dated ASL. OAF began in 1982 as a Squad Leader newsletter published by Arkansas gamer Terry Treadaway, who proceeded to churn out issues and more issues for the next decade and a half."

As for That Company, I believe it was in 1994.
 

Actionjick

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And here you go with regards to the "first" TPP.

Apparently first TPP product publication occurred in July 1986. From DM:

"On All Fronts (OAF) is the oldest “third party” publisher of ASL products; in fact, it pre-dated ASL. OAF began in 1982 as a Squad Leader newsletter published by Arkansas gamer Terry Treadaway, who proceeded to churn out issues and more issues for the next decade and a half."

As for That Company, I believe it was in 1994.
Was well aware of OAF. Terry was working on the Marines wbitd. He also hosted an event in Arkansas.

Somewhere in the attic I have a copy of correspondence from Fish, Mark Nixon and some others to Terry concerning his event and asking that he consider changing the venue to a location that was more accessible to attendees. IIRC he was not very receptive to those suggestions.

After Don Munsell passed I suggested to Fish that he start an ASL event based on Don's SL tournament. Part of the thinking that went into development of Oktoberfest was not only Don's excellent ideas for a player friendly event but Fish's experiences attending many events and tournaments. Among these was the inaccessibility of Terry's event which IIRC was way off the beaten path.

The early Oktoberfests were located near the intersection of the turnpike and a major freeway to ease the travel of those attending. We never considered people would fly to Oktoberfest so much more concerned with being near a major road hub.
 
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atago44

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Thanks! I never really considered magazines, fanzines and other such publications to be TPP but that's just my opinion. Others may disagree and their opinions are as valid as mine.

Lol I never realized Backblast only had two issues. I always assumed our failure with In Contact only putting out two was the shortest lived publication. As a matter of " pride " we did fold first!

We never considered ourselves to be a TPP.
By the way, if you didn't know already, In Contact is given an entry in Desperation Morale.

As for what a TPP is: rethinking this, I guess a free fanzine could be considered a TPP.
 

atago44

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As for expanding the scenario options, you could use the BPV of the units involved to swap out nationalities. I've never tried that, but it might work, with some adjustment.
I would be more inclined to apply some of the later rules, especially concealment.

When I was looking through the scenarios only one struck me as probably not that fun--S9 Ambitious Assault.

It just doesn't look like a very fun experience for the Italians. You've got 12 MMCs with a morale of 6 and a broken side morale of 5. You've got three leaders, one with a -1 modifier and the other two 0s. And your ELR is 1.

Your objective is to have one unbroken MMC in admittedly a fairly large playing area. Your biggest advantage is having 5 machine guns including a heavy and medium, coupled with facing an opponent that for the first three turns has half as many MMCs and only 1 machine gun. But the Americans are monsters--7 attack, 3 smoke exponent, no ELR with 3 leaders, one a 9-2 and one a 9-1 for a leader-to-MMC ratio of 1 leader to 2 MMCs compared to the Italian ratio of 1 to 4. If you disperse your troops you can use your number advantage, but you really can't really stand up and fight; and any broken squad without a leader is probably going to stay that way until the end of the game. By contrast, to stand up and fight you have to concentrate your troops, but even two squads don't match the firepower of one of the Americans.

Then there are the British, which arrive on Turn 4--7 full squads, with a range five, which means they can stand off and shoot you but you can't shoot them without a machine gun. Even worse, they have three machine guns, with a minimum range of 7, meaning they can set up and the only weapons you can hit them with are the heavy and medium machine guns (of course a 3 factor squad with a range of 4 can shoot beyond range for an attack of 1 most likely on a building that has a +3 modifier; you could add the attack of a 2-5 machine gun for a total 2 +3). Of course, the Italians can take the balance, which is a single MMG--but is this really enough?

The Italians can definitely win, but is having a single MMC out of a force that is made to break, ELR, and stay broken, but somehow manages not to be broken at the end, a fun or even satisfactory win? To each their own.

I don't know how this plays out, and MMP is always very good about playtesting before marketing their materials. But if the Italians really are as bad as I would think, house-rule alternatives could be to replace the 3-4-6s with 3-4-7s. Or, with regards to what would be house SSRs, allow Italians concealment (per SK 4) and/or one (or more) "steeple" location (DaE, EP 1) in any multi-hex building building in the the victory conditions area, preferably a building on a hill.

For anyone who has only played SK before, you probably can't imagine how a second level on a building (steeple) or concealment changes the dynamics of a game. Other possibilities include Germans with panzerfausts (EP 1 4.4.2) in battles (only October 1943 and after) in which only their opponent has tanks. How about a few machine guns and concealment for Scenario S1; it would make getting past a lone German picket trying to prevent American reinforcements from entering the fray much more interesting.

If you find some of things disrupt balance, then you can just ditch them; after all, we are just talking house rules.

So, if I were to try to spice up the already existing SK scenarios, these are the kinds of things I would try.
 
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trailrunner

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When I was looking through the scenarios only one struck me as probably not that fun--S9 Ambitious Assault.
You are correct: S9 is rather unbalanced. But not in the way you think: The Italians win something like 75 percent of the time. Giving the Allies balance evens it out a bit.


 

trailrunner

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How about a few machine guns and concealment for Scenario S1; it would make getting past a lone German picket trying to prevent American reinforcements from entering the fray much more interesting.
I believe that S1 was specifically designed NOT to have any SW, to make it the simplest possible scenario. Just squads and leaders. Furthermore, S1 has proven to be remarkably balanced, so the Germans don't need an MG to hold off the Americans. And -- One of the key decisions that the Germans have to make is how much of their force should be deployed to holding off the reinforcements (and where they should be located), and how much of their force should be used to attack (and then hopefully defend) the stone buildings. If the Germans get an MG, this would make their decisions easier.
 

atago44

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You are correct: S9 is rather unbalanced. But not in the way you think: The Italians win something like 75 percent of the time. Giving the Allies balance evens it out a bit.
Well that's interesting.

It is kind of hard rounding up the cats when you don't have enough cowboys around.
 

atago44

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I believe that S1 was specifically designed NOT to have any SW, to make it the simplest possible scenario. Just squads and leaders. Furthermore, S1 has proven to be remarkably balanced, so the Germans don't need an MG to hold off the Americans. And -- One of the key decisions that the Germans have to make is how much of their force should be deployed to holding off the reinforcements (and where they should be located), and how much of their force should be used to attack (and then hopefully defend) the stone buildings. If the Germans get an MG, this would make their decisions easier.
I figured it was pretty well balanced.

My suggestions here were made to address the issue of variety, ie. spicing up scenarios you've played over and over again, not balance (although balance is what I focused on in the S9 discussion). The original poster seemed to suggesting taking scenarios and switching out one nationality for another. I was suggesting using rules found in SKs and/or modifying OBs a little but keeping the same nationalities.

As for S1, I was suggesting that both sides get concealment and machine guns and see how it plays out. I'm sorry that I didn't make that more clear.
 

Actionjick

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Having played S9 several times, I have to agree it is 75% in favour of the Italians
I commend you for playing the same scenario multiple times. I'm quite in favor of that. Well done you. 🤗
 

atago44

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Well, back to the original topic--what you would want to see in a Starter Kit--I will say this.

I would like to see an introduction to upper levels in buildings, upper level hills, and shell holes. Players who transition to full ASL will find that they encounter one or more of these features in almost every full ASL scenario. Also, adding these terrain features would create new dimensions that heretofore have not really been explored in the SKs.

As to fortifications, I would say foxholes, wire, AP mines, and maybe bunkers (pillboxes). As for vehicles, passengers, half tracks, and trucks.

This is not to rehash my former comments, but just to make constructive and more realistic suggestions than I have previously made.
 

62nd Army

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My ideas/what I would like to see for Starter Kit below: (Not listed in any priority)

#1) The French included, especially with the new French counters :)

#2) More maps, I think some "fort-style" boards (Double-wide) for SK would a great addition!

#3) More overlays, no need for dozens and dozens, but a enough to spice things up on the older SK boards.

#4) More of the smaller Bonus packs, I think MMP is in middle of doing #2. These are a great way to get maps and maybe overlays ( see #2 & #3) out there.

#5) Smaller SK HASLs. These are not easy or quick to do, but would be cool IMO. I am thinking along the lines of some of the ASL Journal mini HASLs.

#6) Flesh out the counter mix for the Italians, Allied and Axis minors. Not a huge priority, but would be nice to see and have down the road.

Thanks
Joe
 

Eagle4ty

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Doing the French is a waste of time and resources not to mention an unneeded expense to present units in another nationality color. The unit values for the infantry are the same as the as Allied Minor set for the early war as well as their MGs, ATRs, DCs. Also the use of British counters has been accepted for years to represent Free French in later war scenarios so I see absolutely no need to provide them in a new color for the sake of adding a new counter mix to a product designed to be introductory to the game to ASL. Even as far as Vehicles go The H35/R35/H39 were used by various Allied or Axis minor countries and could easily be substituted in a French OB in those Minor colors without difficulty if provided. The U.S. 60mm Mtr can easily be substituted for the French 60mm Mtr as can the 81mm Mtr. If the ubiquitous "French 75" was provided in either/both the Allied or Axis Minor colors as could the 47mm ATG, those also would alleviate the need for additional counters to be produced in a whole new nationality set. As it stands already one can easily create an early or late war scenario that includes a French OB using the ASLSK kit as already provided. The only difference is the color of the units. ASLSK is not designed to provide the gamer with the complete inventory of equipment utilized by combatants during the 2nd WW but to give them a taste. The current ASLSK kits can already do that for the French.
 
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