OLD FORUM POST:
Chinese Civil War/ACOW Engine quesitons
I have been thinking about creating a scenario of the 1947-1949 Chinese Civil War during which the communists took over mainland China and Nationalists retreated and settled in Taiwan in the end. But I was quite puzzled by the model of war that ACOW engine provides. Maybe I shall first introduce briefly about the civil war in China (since most of you probably never heard of it at all), and then ask the questions.
After WWII, particularly after Japan surrendered, China enjoyed a very short yet unstable peace in early 1947. The then official government is a nationalists' one, which controlled the vast majority of Chinese economy and military. It also controlled over 80% of the population and every cities and almost all industry. But the 8 years of anti-japanese war also gave the chance to the communists to survive and grow. (before the war, esp. in 1934-1935, the communists were nearly wiped out by nationalists throughout the country.) Now they became an unneglegible force of around 700,000 field troops (500,000 of 8th Route Army and 200,000 from the New 4th Army) plus around 1.3 million militia(mostly in central and northern China). They also directly controlled a large rural area of about 4 provinces(out of around 30 in total). The strength of the nationalists, of course, were still dominating, with around 8 million enlisted men, and support from the US. They also accepted a large portion of the equipments of the surrendered Jap troops. A small portion (around 20%) of the nationalists troops (NT) were motorized. NT also enjoyed a small air force (120 - 150 fighter bombers), a small navy (some 30 destroyers), and a small armored force. While its counterparty, the communists (CP) were mainly equipped with only rifles, some mortars, and small number of 75mm guns (NT had regiments of arties equipped and trained by the US, including the best 155mm howitzers.), no air force, no navy and no transportation except their own feet. What CP had most was actually the vast support from the Chinese people at the time, the NT were so corrupted that over 90% of the national fortune were actually all under 4 families(who are the big bosses of NT, of course) and they lost all the support from almost every village and most cities.
At the beginning, there was some negotiation going on between the two parties but in mid 1947, NT initiated a full scale offensive across the country in order to wipe out the CP "in 3 months". The peace hope for China vanished. The CP had to retreat everywhere and abandon every towns they had (including Yan'an, the then "capitol" of CP), the NT soon started to celebrate their triumph ---- maybe, too soon. While they thought they are almost "finished with the CPs", they did not indeed inflict much damage to the CP forces except capturing abandoned villages and houses. The major forces of CP (the original 8th Route Army and New 4th Army) completed several strategic manuver and deployment/reorganization during this period: they fast trained the militia and constituted them together with the former mobile forces into 4 field armies (1st to 4th, also known as Central, East, North and Northeast armies), with the 1st (Central) army strategically "jumped" into the central mountain areas of China (BTW, my hometown ), and the 4th(Northeast) army marched into manchuri with more or less the help from the Soviets to establish a footage for CP there. The Soviets, esp. Stalin himself, did not believe (and did not want) the CP to control the whole China, but they DID hope CCP could gain a stand and face the western threats (the US supported NT), so they offered help in the Northeastern part of China to CP, but they did not help, or even contained the CP on its later operations all over China.
In early 1948, the NT offensive stalled and the then president Kiang GS realized that the CP were far from elimination. But NT's line was already stretched out too far and must wait for a while to resume a second offensive. The CP used this pause in NT's move and finished its strategic deployment for counterattack. From mid 1948 to early 1949, from northeastern China to central china, sequentially but cooperatively, CP forces conducted 3 major campaigns: the "Liao-Shen" campaign, the "Ping-Jing" campaign and the "HuaiHai" campaign --- each of which CP concentrated around 500k - 800k troops (1 to 2 field armies), successfully trapped and evaporated same amount (in fact, slightly more) NT troops. At the end of HuaiHai campaign, all the major "elite" troops of NT were history and Kiang GS was left not much choices but deployed a long and "strong" line across the biggest river in China, the Yangtsi River to hope to "split and get" half of China. But unfortunately that line was long but not strong at all, even with no navy or air force, the CP managed countless sails or oar-boats to transport over 1 million troops (from all 4 armies) to cross the River and NT line collapsed in no time. The rest of the story was just CP chasing off the remaining NT troops until they were stopped by the Taiwan strait (and it remains the situation now.).
The 3 major campaigns are all crucial and legendary. The CPs achieved "mission impossible" and the NT could not believe the defeat themselves. And those were also the scenarios I was thinking to create. But there are difficulties:
1. CP's success lies highly on its great coordinate throughout the theatre and its counterparties' confusion as a sharp comparison. --- but how can one model this in ACOW? Use shock levels? Or event triggered shocks? By this I mean, if CP forces capture certain places, the NT will receive a shock punishment or something like that?
2. CP's support from people literally offered it an almost unbreakable strong supply line, which allowed its forces to penetrate and flank the enemies more or less easier than its counterparty. .... Use strong garrilla setting?
3. CP forces fought much more fiercly. While the NTs surrendered much more easily: and sometimes even whole division of NT's forces would surrender and fight for CP in just a few weeks. How to model this? Actually the NT forces were better "pre-trained", but the CP forces were combat harden veterans (BTW, in Korean 50 scenario, the model for Chinese volunteer army's proficiency was completely a joke. I do not know who designed it, but he definitely need some reading about that war.), and mostly I feel here is another dimension rather than "proficiency" --- something like "loyalty" or whatever... how to model that?
4. and finally since the CP force almost had no siege weapon, ACOW seemed to weigh highly on large guns to break enemy fortifications ---- I do not know how to model the infiltration tactics (which was very successful in those siege battle then.) in ACOW.
Chinese Civil War/ACOW Engine quesitons
I have been thinking about creating a scenario of the 1947-1949 Chinese Civil War during which the communists took over mainland China and Nationalists retreated and settled in Taiwan in the end. But I was quite puzzled by the model of war that ACOW engine provides. Maybe I shall first introduce briefly about the civil war in China (since most of you probably never heard of it at all), and then ask the questions.
After WWII, particularly after Japan surrendered, China enjoyed a very short yet unstable peace in early 1947. The then official government is a nationalists' one, which controlled the vast majority of Chinese economy and military. It also controlled over 80% of the population and every cities and almost all industry. But the 8 years of anti-japanese war also gave the chance to the communists to survive and grow. (before the war, esp. in 1934-1935, the communists were nearly wiped out by nationalists throughout the country.) Now they became an unneglegible force of around 700,000 field troops (500,000 of 8th Route Army and 200,000 from the New 4th Army) plus around 1.3 million militia(mostly in central and northern China). They also directly controlled a large rural area of about 4 provinces(out of around 30 in total). The strength of the nationalists, of course, were still dominating, with around 8 million enlisted men, and support from the US. They also accepted a large portion of the equipments of the surrendered Jap troops. A small portion (around 20%) of the nationalists troops (NT) were motorized. NT also enjoyed a small air force (120 - 150 fighter bombers), a small navy (some 30 destroyers), and a small armored force. While its counterparty, the communists (CP) were mainly equipped with only rifles, some mortars, and small number of 75mm guns (NT had regiments of arties equipped and trained by the US, including the best 155mm howitzers.), no air force, no navy and no transportation except their own feet. What CP had most was actually the vast support from the Chinese people at the time, the NT were so corrupted that over 90% of the national fortune were actually all under 4 families(who are the big bosses of NT, of course) and they lost all the support from almost every village and most cities.
At the beginning, there was some negotiation going on between the two parties but in mid 1947, NT initiated a full scale offensive across the country in order to wipe out the CP "in 3 months". The peace hope for China vanished. The CP had to retreat everywhere and abandon every towns they had (including Yan'an, the then "capitol" of CP), the NT soon started to celebrate their triumph ---- maybe, too soon. While they thought they are almost "finished with the CPs", they did not indeed inflict much damage to the CP forces except capturing abandoned villages and houses. The major forces of CP (the original 8th Route Army and New 4th Army) completed several strategic manuver and deployment/reorganization during this period: they fast trained the militia and constituted them together with the former mobile forces into 4 field armies (1st to 4th, also known as Central, East, North and Northeast armies), with the 1st (Central) army strategically "jumped" into the central mountain areas of China (BTW, my hometown ), and the 4th(Northeast) army marched into manchuri with more or less the help from the Soviets to establish a footage for CP there. The Soviets, esp. Stalin himself, did not believe (and did not want) the CP to control the whole China, but they DID hope CCP could gain a stand and face the western threats (the US supported NT), so they offered help in the Northeastern part of China to CP, but they did not help, or even contained the CP on its later operations all over China.
In early 1948, the NT offensive stalled and the then president Kiang GS realized that the CP were far from elimination. But NT's line was already stretched out too far and must wait for a while to resume a second offensive. The CP used this pause in NT's move and finished its strategic deployment for counterattack. From mid 1948 to early 1949, from northeastern China to central china, sequentially but cooperatively, CP forces conducted 3 major campaigns: the "Liao-Shen" campaign, the "Ping-Jing" campaign and the "HuaiHai" campaign --- each of which CP concentrated around 500k - 800k troops (1 to 2 field armies), successfully trapped and evaporated same amount (in fact, slightly more) NT troops. At the end of HuaiHai campaign, all the major "elite" troops of NT were history and Kiang GS was left not much choices but deployed a long and "strong" line across the biggest river in China, the Yangtsi River to hope to "split and get" half of China. But unfortunately that line was long but not strong at all, even with no navy or air force, the CP managed countless sails or oar-boats to transport over 1 million troops (from all 4 armies) to cross the River and NT line collapsed in no time. The rest of the story was just CP chasing off the remaining NT troops until they were stopped by the Taiwan strait (and it remains the situation now.).
The 3 major campaigns are all crucial and legendary. The CPs achieved "mission impossible" and the NT could not believe the defeat themselves. And those were also the scenarios I was thinking to create. But there are difficulties:
1. CP's success lies highly on its great coordinate throughout the theatre and its counterparties' confusion as a sharp comparison. --- but how can one model this in ACOW? Use shock levels? Or event triggered shocks? By this I mean, if CP forces capture certain places, the NT will receive a shock punishment or something like that?
2. CP's support from people literally offered it an almost unbreakable strong supply line, which allowed its forces to penetrate and flank the enemies more or less easier than its counterparty. .... Use strong garrilla setting?
3. CP forces fought much more fiercly. While the NTs surrendered much more easily: and sometimes even whole division of NT's forces would surrender and fight for CP in just a few weeks. How to model this? Actually the NT forces were better "pre-trained", but the CP forces were combat harden veterans (BTW, in Korean 50 scenario, the model for Chinese volunteer army's proficiency was completely a joke. I do not know who designed it, but he definitely need some reading about that war.), and mostly I feel here is another dimension rather than "proficiency" --- something like "loyalty" or whatever... how to model that?
4. and finally since the CP force almost had no siege weapon, ACOW seemed to weigh highly on large guns to break enemy fortifications ---- I do not know how to model the infiltration tactics (which was very successful in those siege battle then.) in ACOW.