I don't get hex control...

[jfardette]

I've read A26.11 and A26.13 about a dozen times each, and I still don't get it. There is a Perry Sez that covers the situation with a one word answer, but I'm hoping someone here can explain it.

A squad moves into a building hex when a good order unfriendly is upstairs. I get that you don't capture the building and each control your own loacation, but don't get why you don't capture the hex. Would one of you kind folks please point out what I am missing here?

 

[jrv]

You gain control of anything by having a GO MMC in the <anything> without an enemy unit (GO or not, MMC or not) in the <anything> (we'll ignore vehicles controlling things for this answer). By this, if a MMC enters a hex but there is an enemy unit also in that hex, it doesn't gain control of the hex. Hex control is further limited in that the unit trying to gain control must be at ground level, but that does not affect the principle.

JR

 

[jfardette]

If the unit cannot take control if another unit is present, then why all the quibble about ground level at all? If at level 1 for example but no enemy present, then you get the building and the hex and all locations. So what is the significance of a unit entering at ground level vs another level? Still confused...

 

[klasmalmstrom]

If the unit cannot take control if another unit is present, then why all the quibble about ground level at all?

That is just the way the hex Control rule is written.

If at level 1 for example but no enemy present, then you get the building and the hex and all locations.

You would only gain Control of the building - not the hex, nor any other hexes/Locations of the building.

 

[Jazz]

If the unit cannot take control if another unit is present, then why all the quibble about ground level at all? If at level 1 for example but no enemy present, then you get the building and the hex and all locations. So what is the significance of a unit entering at ground level vs another level? Still confused...

Note that to control all the actual locations in a multi-location building you need to actually tag each location with a GO MMC.

 

[jrv]

Note that to control all the actual locations in a multi-location building you need to actually tag each location with a GO MMC.

Doesn't mopping up also take all the locations?

JR

 

[Sparafucil3]

Note that to control all the actual locations in a multi-location building you need to actually tag each location with a GO MMC.

Or Mop it up. -- jim

 

[Philippe D.]

Think of it as several levels of detail to building control.

You can control a building at the very rough detail level - this is "building control". It's the easiest, less costly manner of controlling the building - in essence, occupy it unopposed, and you're good.

And you can control a building at the very finest detail level - by controlling each and every Location of it. To do this, you must drag a Good Order unit through each Location without letting the enemy slip back in.

Or, you can Mop it up, which, when you think about it, essentially means the same thing, but in a way that is completely abstracted away by the rules.

The only tricky thing is to remember which is which, because some scenarios care about rough control, while other care about fine control.

 

[jfardette]

And some care about hex control but not the building at all.

Maybe I'm asking wrong. Can you provide an example of how a unit could take control of a building hex without taking the single hex building? Or for that matter any unit controlling a hex but not single hex building?

 

[Philippe D.]

Forgetting about vehicular "temporary control"...

If you take control of a building hex, it means you have a Good Order MMC at ground level in it, and there are no armed enemy units in the same hex (A26.11, A26.13). If the building is a single-hex building, this implies the whole building is devoid of armed enemy units, so you also control the building. You may not have control of all of the building's Locations if it has more than just the ground level location, but you do control the building.

 

[von Marwitz]

Possibly, if the unit is on a Rooftop. IIRC, while on a Rooftop, you can't get Control of the Building. But if you are the only unit in the hex, you might get Hex Control.

"B23.83 RALLY: There is no terrain bonus (A10.61) for a Rally attempt on a Rooftop. A Rooftop Location is not considered a building Location for rout and Victory Condition purposes."

But please doublecheck to make sure.

von Marwitz

 

[jrv]

If a friendly unit enters a building with a GO enemy unit upstairs, it does not control the hex. Assume these are the only units in the building. The friendly unit Advances upstairs and kills the enemy unit in CC. It now controls the upstairs location (and the downstairs location) and the building but not the hex.

The three types of control are not functions of one another. A side may have hex control without having building or location control. A side may have building control without controlling any of the hexes or the locations. A side may have location control without controlling either the building or the hex. It is a fun but not very useful exercise to create examples of each. Usually only one type of control is in play at any one time.

JR

 

[Brian W]

I find it easier not to confuse the control rules with each other since they (almost) never appear as part of the same VC; each just a tool for how a designer wants a scenario to play out. So, if a VC talks of Hex Control, forget about the Building Control rules.

The main exception (sorta) to this is the Vehicular Control rule, A26.12.

EDIT: as JR just posted "Usually only one type of control is in play at any one time."

 

[jrv]

The three types of control may be interdependent in the following way: I believe it is not possible to have hex or building control without having controlled at least one location in the past. Unless there is a deliberately set fire involved.

Vehicle control is always trouble.

JR

 

[klasmalmstrom]

..Vehicle control is always trouble.

Even more so if the roads are icy.

 

[jfardette]

If a friendly unit enters a building with a GO enemy unit upstairs, it does not control the hex. Assume these are the only units in the building. The friendly unit Advances upstairs and kills the enemy unit in CC. It now controls the upstairs location (and the downstairs location) and the building but not the hex.JR

OK, I think it finally makes sense now. Thanks for the example. If I read A12.153 correctly, mopping up will also give you building control and all locations but not hex control. Is that so?

 

[jrv]

OK, I think it finally makes sense now. Thanks for the example. If I read A12.153 correctly, mopping up will also give you building control and all locations but not hex control. Is that so?

That is correct. This is only because the rule says that. A different rules writer might have granted hex control too. It seems to me somewhat arbitrary, but in games in general victory conditions are somewhat arbitrary. You don't read about Patton slapping a soldier because he gained Location control but not hex control.

The different control types are not designed to work "as a unit" because they aren't designed to be used at the same time. The basic principle, a friendly MMC with no enemy armed (no dummies) enemy ground unit in the <hex/location/building>, applies to all three types of control, but the different kinds of control usually aren't in play at the same time for the same objective. So while it is possible that a scenario might say, control this building and that (non-building) hex (although usually VC will say choose one type of control for all), there is no conflict because the three don't apply to the same objective.

JR