HW Direction and Placement of Range counter (A25.231 - 25.2321)

[GeorgeBates]

It is Soviet Player Turn 2 MPh and the Red Army player has just declared a Human Wave in J187, "In Deadly Combat." Please view the illustration from the first MF impulse and confirm whether movement was performed correctly or not.



The target is the concealed German stack in 71O6. HW Direction is the alternate hex grain from W6 to O6. The stack in T4 has moved to S4, one of the two forward locations available to it. If the alternate hex grain is drawn through T6, then this stack is still 2 hexes distant and does not take a Range counter. However, if HW direction was specified as passing through hex coordinates numbered 5, then distance would have increased by 1, the stack would pick up a Range counter, and it would be forced to enter R4 in the next impulse, agreed?

Thanks to Michael Rodgers for his rockin' VASL setup file for this rockin' scenario.

 

[jrv]

That is correct. If the alternate hex grain was specified as w6-v5-...-o6, the unit would need a range counter, and if w6-v6-...-o6 it would not. With alternate hex grains I often put down a spare counter in each hex of the hex grain from beginning to end because otherwise figuring out whether the next "same distance" move is left or right can be confusing. If you are using vasl, you can use blank counters.

JR

 

[Jeff Sewall]

There may be no choice. It depends on which HW Unit is designated as the one with LOS to the target enemy unit. The HW (Alternate) Hex Grain must include the target unit and be as close as possible to a HW Unit with LOS. Given the smoke, orchard, and AFV hindrances, LOS may have been an issue. Can't really tell from the snapshot where some of the units began.

 

[jrv]

There may be no choice. It depends on which HW Unit is designated as the one with LOS to the target enemy unit. The HW (Alternate) Hex Grain must include the target unit and be as close as possible to a HW Unit with LOS. Given the smoke, orchard, and AFV hindrances, LOS may have been an issue. Can't really tell from the snapshot where some of the units began.

The question is not about how to put down the hex grain. It is already down. The units are moving. The question is about whether a hex grain range counter is placed on a particular stack making a particular move on a particular impulse, and that in turn depends on which of the two possible hex grains was chosen.

Note that before movement starts one of the two hex grains must be chosen. It can't be decided later after the units have started moving. I think that is obvious, but I mention it in case it is not.

JR

 

[Jeff Sewall]

The question is not about how to put down the hex grain. It is already down.
JR

Really? If it is already down, then it was not placed properly. I see 3 HW Direction counters indicating a general direction, but that is not how you indicate an Alternate Hex Grain. See the A25.234 example.

 

[jrv]

Really? If it is already down, then it was not placed properly. I see 3 HW Direction counters indicating a general direction, but that is not how you indicate an Alternate Hex Grain. See the A25.234 example.

The picture with the extra HW direction counters *is* very confusing. The text states that the hex grain is W6 to O6, which is ambiguous between W6-V5-O6 and W6-V6-O6. Depending on how that ambiguity is resolved, the unit moving in the question either has a hex grain range marker put on it or not. The multiple HW direction counters may indicate that the players have other issues, but the text of the question was clear so I overlooked the extra counters in the picture.

JR

 

[Robin Reeve]

I usually imagine/visualize the line of hexes along the hex grain designated by the HW direction counter.
If a HW unit moves away from that line, I mark it with a range counter.

 

[Eagle4ty]

The picture with the extra HW direction counters *is* very confusing. The text states that the hex grain is W6 to O6, which is ambiguous between W6-V5-O6 and W6-V6-O6. Depending on how that ambiguity is resolved, the unit moving in the question either has a hex grain range marker put on it or not. The multiple HW direction counters may indicate that the players have other issues, but the text of the question was clear so I overlooked the extra counters in the picture.

JR

Very true, it "is" confusing. As Jeff intimated, I really don't believe the Russians could have initiated a HW in the first place if the LOS as drawn from W6 to O6 was used as I calculate the hindrances as +6. However, there may have been other mitigating factors that allowed a valid LOS after all. Also don't the HW Direction counters have an off-set arrow to better delineate the alternate hex grain utilized for the movement? I haven't used HW in VASL enough to remember if the arrow in the center can be so delineated. If so this is a major screw up on their part and helps confuse an issue rather than make it easier to understand.

 

[Jeff Sewall]

Just checked VASL and there is just the center-arrow HW Direction counter. While I agree it would be better to have alternate hex grain counters that flip sides similar to the Fire Lane counters (Mmmm....More Counters......Good!), I don't think it's a huge deal. Just use facing HW Direction counters that are offset properly to denote the correct side of the Alternate Hex Grain. Again, just as in the A25.234 example.

 

[Eagle4ty]

Just checked VASL and there is just the center-arrow HW Direction counter. While I agree it would be better to have alternate hex grain counters that flip sides similar to the Fire Lane counters (Mmmm....More Counters......Good!), I don't think it's a huge deal. Just use facing HW Direction counters that are offset properly to denote the correct side of the Alternate Hex Grain. Again, just as in the A25.234 example.

True Jeff, but the example is based upon actual counters and they have an off-set arrow (at least the ones I have do).

 

[Jeff Sewall]

True Jeff, but the example is based upon actual counters and they have an off-set arrow (at least the ones I have do).

Ah, I see your point now. It's not so much being able to flip the arrow on the vasl counter from one side to the other as it is just having the arrow be non-centered.

 

[Eagle4ty]

Ah, I see your point now. It's not so much being able to flip the arrow on the vasl counter from one side to the other as it is just having the arrow be non-centered.

Thanks for the info!

 

[jrv]

The vasl counters are deficient. They should be like the firelane counters. You can put them on the hexside for a workaround.

JR

 

[GeorgeBates]

I really don't believe the Russians could have initiated a HW in the first place if the LOS as drawn from W6 to O6 was used as I calculate the hindrances as +6

The stack originally in V6 (moved to U7) had LOS to the target with a +5 hindrance (smoke 3, orchard 1, tank 1). The screen shot was taken at the time we were trying to figure the HW Direction out, and we had plopped down some more counters. Not being exactly sure that we were going about it right, we took a picture and decided to play on. In the end, the hex grain for the HW Direction was never specified during play, which was the chief error. As JR discerns, the question was drafted later after the situation received further thought.

Thanks to all for chipping in to straighten this out.

Cheers!

- G

 

[jrv]

With complicated Human Waves (especially more than one row) on an alternate grain hex grain I like to put down markers in all the hexes of the hexgrain. In real ASL you can use concealment counters of a nationality not in play. On vasl you can use blank counters. It gets confusing because the first row has to shift left to stay the same distance while the second row has to shift right, etc. (or vice versa). Putting down the counters makes easier to see who has to go where and when a hex grain range counter is needed. Regular hex grains are not really a problem, and neither are small alternate hex grain ones (e.g. banzai by THH).

JR