HW/Banzai charge entering Location with Hipster (A12.15)

[Robin Reeve]

Hi all,
A HW/Banzai charging unit enters a brush Location (no PTO bamboo transformation applying) containing a HIP unit.
What does the HIP unit become ?
A12.15 is clear that it doesn't bump back the HW/Banzai unit, but I cannot find the rule paragraph which gives further detail (A12.41 is only about vehicles entering a concealed unit Location).
I presume that the HIP unit loses its hidden status, but :

• may it remain concealed (under what conditions?)
• if not, must it TPBF as vs a Berserk unit?

Same questions for a concealed unit in Brush entered by a HW/Banzai charging unit.

 

[Philippe D.]

Why would the unit be exempt from the provisions of A8.312?

8.312 TPBF: An armed, unbroken Infantry DEFENDER not in Melee must after all Residual-FP/minefield/OBA attacks then immediately attack any Infantry/Cavalry MMC unit that enters its Location during the MPh whether it uses Defensive First Fire, Subsequent First Fire, or FPF [EXC: A SMC with a MG/IFE already marked with a First Fire counter may not use Subsequent First Fire or FPF because it cannot use Sustained Fire].

 

[Robin Reeve]

Thanks.
I couldn't find the relevant rule paragraph.

 

[Philippe D.]

I had to dig a little myself, I admit.

 

[Eagle4ty]

Thanks.
I couldn't find the relevant rule paragraph.

I'll bet you'd know it if playing a game. Sometimes when we review a rule we overlook the obvious & overthink it (or at least I find myself doing that) but during play it become natural (Yeah, I gotta shoot!).

 

[bendizoid]

Why would the unit be exempt from the provisions of A8.312?

There is something in chapter G that allows Japanese(?) to stay HIP in PTO, maybe that’s where.

 

[Robin Reeve]

I'll bet you'd know it if playing a game. Sometimes when we review a rule we overlook the obvious & overthink it (or at least I find myself doing that) but during play it become natural (Yeah, I gotta shoot!).

I was actually playing a game from the last AP (AP164 Sparrow Force) and my Aussie Bayonet charge entered a brush hex ( non PTO'ed to bamboo).
Sorry for having had a senior moment and not immediately finding the appropriate rule : I skimmed A12 and A25.13, without thinking of A8...

FYI I nearly always ask rules questions relating to games I am actually playing.
Why are you so certain that it was not the case?
What were you trying to tell me?

 

[Eagle4ty]

I was actually playing a game from the last AP (AP196 Sparrow Force) and my Aussie Bayonet charge entered a brush hex ( non PTO'ed to bamboo).
Sorry for having had a senior moment and not immediately finding the appropriate rule : I skimmed A12 and A25.13, without thinking of A8...

FYI I nearly always ask rules questions relating to games I am actually playing.
Why are you so certain that it was not the case?
What were you trying to tell me?

I know when I look at rules in review I get too focused on particular aspect and forget the basics sometimes but during the "heat of the moment" during a game I seem to recall a rule that applies with little difficulty (perhaps not totally accurate though). I just thought you may well have been in a similar situation. Our brains work in weird ways, given too much time we may second guess our instincts (or gut feeling) or doubt our wisdom erroneously. As for senior moments, Ive got you by quite a few years would be my guess & more than likely many more moments.

 

[Robin Reeve]

As for senior moments, Ive got you by quite a few years would be my guess & more than likely many more moments.

I am 57, but my mind mostly works in an "analogical" way, rather than being "analytical" : I have a global perception first, like a picture. The grasping of the details comes second.

In the present case, the Index gave no hint to look at A8 for units entering an enemy occupied hex.
A12.41 about OVR could have a "sister rule" about HW/Berserk or other Infantry movement into a concealed/HIP unit hex.

But that won't happen: ASL says one thing in one definite place and does not often repeat it elsewhere.

 

[Vinnie]

You are correct to question the automatic fire rule as this is affected by G.4, but only if in kunai , jungle or bamboo.

 

[Robin Reeve]

You are correct to question the automatic fire rule as this is affected by G.4, but only if in kunai , jungle or bamboo.

That is indeed why I specified "a brush Location (no PTO bamboo transformation applying)".

 

[Robin Reeve]

What happens when a HW unit enters a Location with a Dummy stack ?
I would say that the Dummies are removed and that the HW unit may move on...

 

[klasmalmstrom]

What happens when a HW unit enters a Location with a Dummy stack ?
I would say that the Dummies are removed and that the HW unit may move on...

Sounds correct to me - just like when a non-HW unit "bumps" into a dummy stack....

 

[Robin Reeve]

Thank you.

 

[Stewart]

What happens when a HW unit enters a Location with a Dummy stack ?
I would say that the Dummies are removed and that the HW unit may move on...

What would happen if a BERSERK unit did the same?
Same rule.