HS Bump & Snap Shots

George Kelln

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A German HS declares and Assault Moves from a Building into an adjacent building hex containing a Concealed British Squad.
The German HS is forced back, revealing the British Squad.
The British Squad wants to take a "Snap Shot" on the German HS in Open Ground between the buildings; does it
  1. Snap Shot the German HS before he attempts moves into the building?;
  2. Snap Shot the German HS after it is rebuffed and is returning back to his starting building?; or
  3. Cannot Snap Shot the German HS in between the buildings?
Thanks in advance for the answer, and don't forget references for the Rules Lawyers.
 

Robin Reeve

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A12.15 says "The MF expended in attempting to move into the concealed unit's Location are still used, but are considered expended in the Location it is returned to", so I would say that it is not considered to have entered the DEFENDER's Location, nor to have crossed the intervening hexside.
So no Snap Shot along that hexside.
 

jrv

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In order to claim a snap shot, the hexside has to be "crossed" [A8.15]. In this case no hexside was crossed. An attempt to cross was rebuffed.

JR
 

George Kelln

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Here is a picture to better explain the situation.

German HS in N2 is Assault Moving into N3;
British Squad in N3 rebuffs HS, forcing it back to N2 and revealing Squad in process;
British Squad wants to declare a "Snap Shot" against the HS.
Therefore the British Squad takes:
  1. Snap Shot the German HS before he attempts moves into the building?;
  2. Snap Shot the German HS after it is rebuffed and is returning back to his starting building?; or
  3. Cannot Snap Shot the German HS in between the buildings?
7850
 

jrv

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If the unit *had* entered N3 (e.g Human Wave) a snap shot is not possible when the entering the firing unit's hex [A8.15]. Other units (e.g. in M3) *could* declare a snap shot.

JR
 

jrv

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What about the N2-N3 hexside that was crossed when attempt to get into N3 building and crossed when rebuffed?
It was not crossed. If it had been crossed, the unit would have started in N2 and ended in N3. As it is the unit started in N2 and ended in N2. No crossing. The unit attempted to cross the hexside.

JR
 

klasmalmstrom

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German HS in N2 is Assault Moving into N3;
British Squad in N3 rebuffs HS, forcing it back to N2 and revealing Squad in process;
British Squad wants to declare a "Snap Shot" against the HS.
Therefore the British Squad takes:
  1. Snap Shot the German HS before he attempts moves into the building?;
  2. Snap Shot the German HS after it is rebuffed and is returning back to his starting building?; or
  3. Cannot Snap Shot the German HS in between the buildings?
You can't make a Snap Shot as the German HS attempts to enter, but you can make a Snap Shot as it is returned.

A12.15:
"A unit forced back to its previous Location is not subject to attack (even by a minefield or FFE) during its brief period in the previously-concealed unit’s Location, nor can it be the subject of a Snap Shot from the firer’s hex while attempting to enter the concealed unit’s Location, but it is subject to Snap Shots/other First Fire attacks (see C.5C) when being returned to its previously occupied Location."
 

Robin Reeve

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Well, we all missed the point.
Thanks Klas.
 

Magpie

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Seems to be the idea is that unit is shot at in that moment it spends milling about after realising there us an enemy unit in the house.
 

Eagle4ty

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You can't make a Snap Shot as the German HS attempts to enter, but you can make a Snap Shot as it is returned.

A12.15:
"A unit forced back to its previous Location is not subject to attack (even by a minefield or FFE) during its brief period in the previously-concealed unit’s Location, nor can it be the subject of a Snap Shot from the firer’s hex while attempting to enter the concealed unit’s Location, but it is subject to Snap Shots/other First Fire attacks (see C.5C) when being returned to its previously occupied Location."
The one thing that had always puzzled me about this was could the "bumped" unit conduct such a Snap-Shot on the return to the former location? I've always maintained it could but I've had several other players say only other units could conduct such an attack as the the "bumped" unit is ineligible to do so per A8.15.
 

SSlunt

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The one thing that had always puzzled me about this was could the "bumped" unit conduct such a Snap-Shot on the return to the former location? I've always maintained it could but I've had several other players say only other units could conduct such an attack as the the "bumped" unit is ineligible to do so per A8.15.
From A12.15 says that the Bumped unit can make the snap shot, just not while the moving unit is within his hex.
 

Paul S NJ

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I remember the no in-hex snap shot on the bumping/moving unit in your own hex mainly because it prevents a defending unit from being able to fire on a moving unit 'bumping' the defender from off board. Mark Nixon used this to his advantage in a city fight of entering Japanese vs. my british defenders.

NRBH
  • When re-entering its original hex after the bump, is the moving/bumping unit subject to residual fire and minefield attacks?
  • Does it matter if the moving unit had already been subject in that returning hex to the residual earlier in the movement phase?
Paul
 

Larry

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Put 4 RFP in N2. The HS is forced back from N3. The HS takes the RFP shot if not subject to the RFP before that bounce?
 

Vinnie

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Put 4 RFP in N2. The HS is forced back from N3. The HS takes the RFP shot if not subject to the RFP before that bounce?
He takes the residual whether he has been subject to it before or not.

The MF expended in attempting to move into the concealed unit's Location are still used, but are considered expended in the Location it is returned to; such re-entry causes any already-existing Residual FP in the returned-to Location to attack the returning unit--even if it had already attacked that unit in that phase.
 
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