How would a supercomputer handle ASL?

JoeArthur

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So,

Occasionally a random thought flicks through my head and a recent one was. I wonder how a supercomputer would play ASL? They've done chess, Go - how would it handle ASL?

It would obviously adhere and know all the rules - so a perfect game of ASL would be played. How about gun placement? I've heard that described as more of an art than a science..........

What do you think?
 

Tuomo

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Are you asking how one could be programmed to play ASL, or what its game would look like if it were?

I have no idea about either. I suspect the answer to the latter question would look remarkably like an Evil Universe Opposite version of the way Jazz plays. (HEYYO!)
 

Actionjick

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Are you asking how one could be programmed to play ASL, or what its game would look like if it were?

I have no idea about either. I suspect the answer to the latter question would look remarkably like an Evil Universe Opposite version of the way Jazz plays. (HEYYO!)
I think the computer would play a technically competent game but lacking in innovation and " imagination ". Probably a boring game but the upside would hopefully be a fast moving game.
 

Actionjick

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I think the computer would play a technically competent game but lacking in innovation and " imagination ". Probably a boring game but the upside would hopefully be a fast moving game.
An example of imagination, not ASL but a good example.

Fish and I were playing Civilization 3, PTW, one of the few times we played it against each other. I had built a city on a one hex wide strip of land, surrounded by water, connecting two larger land masses, one controlled by Fish. I controlled the other. Fish was about to attack my city which would have given him a clear route to my territory. I didn't have sufficient forces to defend the city so I was in a dilemma. Suddenly I had an idea. I gave the city to one of the AI controlled civilizations which bordered Fish's territory and he was not at war with. Then if Fish attacked my previously owned city he would be facing a two front war which he was not prepared for. I thought it was an inspired move, one I'm not sure a supercomputer would have come up with. I don't think AI has yet been programmed to be a jick!
 

Actionjick

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I think a supercomputer will figure out quickly that humans are NO fun to play against. It will come together and Skynet will be born. It will then kill every last human and play ASL against itself.
The perils of technology.
 

R Hooks

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In a war against the computer planets, space forces would have to be computers too.
 

Actionjick

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In a war against the computer planets, space forces would have to be computers too.
Marvin, the paranoid android from Hitchhiker's Guide with a brain the size of a planet, would be a worthy opponent. If you could put up with his personality.
 

WuWei

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I think the computer would play a technically competent game but lacking in innovation and " imagination ". Probably a boring game but the upside would hopefully be a fast moving game.
Our experience with that AI playing Go was different. It did totally innovative things that humans didn't even imagine, things that "just weren't done", and kept on winning against the best players in the world. Its opponents definitely weren't bored. I don't follow the development at the moment, but even weeks later, the experts were still analyzing those first games and tried to figure out what went on there and what that AI was doing. I'd expect something similar for ASL, and the discovery of a lot of new "sleazes".
 

Actionjick

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Our experience with that AI playing Go was different. It did totally innovative things that humans didn't even imagine, things that "just weren't done", and kept on winning against the best players in the world. Its opponents definitely weren't bored. I don't follow the development at the moment, but even weeks later, the experts were still analyzing those first games and tried to figure out what went on there and what that AI was doing. I'd expect something similar for ASL, and the discovery of a lot of new "sleazes".
Nice! There's hope for AI. Glad to hear it's progressing.
 

Sparafucil3

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I don't claim to be an AI expert, but I don't think an AI will handle ASL any time soon. There are simply too many options and too many possible outcomes. Even the variability of the outcome is a challenge for AI to handle. Not saying it can't be done, just it isn't as easy as checkers, chess, go, etc. The AI for Starcraft (AlphaStar) might be the closest starting point. -- jim
 

Actionjick

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I don't claim to be an AI expert, but I don't think an AI will handle ASL any time soon. There are simply too many options and too many possible outcomes. Even the variability of the outcome is a challenge for AI to handle. Not saying it can't be done, just it isn't as easy as checkers, chess, go, etc. The AI for Starcraft (AlphaStar) might be the closest starting point. -- jim
That was what I was thinking. ASL is pretty complex but I also don't know much about AI
 

Eagle4ty

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Dependent upon the programmer(s) input the computers would have analyzed the situation and made ad adequate decision in lightning quick speed to its best probable outcome. If our pea brains can come up with a solution and the programmers can properly input associated data the decision would have been made so quicly that one probably wouldn't have noticed it. The old adage holds true, G.I.-G.O.
 

bendizoid

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I’m against it for poor Perry’s sake. The AI would flood him with crazy questions of all sorts, as if he doesn’t have enough already.
 

Sparafucil3

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Dependent upon the programmer(s) input the computers would have analyzed the situation and made ad adequate decision in lightning quick speed to its best probable outcome. If our pea brains can come up with a solution and the programmers can properly input associated data the decision would have been made so quicly that one probably wouldn't have noticed it. The old adage holds true, G.I.-G.O.
The problem is it does it all on input and outcome. The randomness in the outcome will make the learning "muddy". Also, there is more than one solution to the end problem. I am not saying it can't be done, but the space for learning is exhaustive. It's not like a chess, or go, or checker board. The initial setup is almost infinitely random. The search space is enormous. -- jim
 

Actionjick

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Assuming you could have the computer learn all the rules how would you teach it to play the game?

I would think having it see scenarios played between exceptional players would be a start, then perhaps between average players.
Or do you just start playing it and let it learn by playing, like everyone else?
 

von Marwitz

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I don't claim to be an AI expert, but I don't think an AI will handle ASL any time soon. There are simply too many options and too many possible outcomes. Even the variability of the outcome is a challenge for AI to handle. Not saying it can't be done, just it isn't as easy as checkers, chess, go, etc. The AI for Starcraft (AlphaStar) might be the closest starting point. -- jim
I believe you are right.

For sure I am not an AI expert either, but it seems that AI needs either to 'learn' by lots of data fed to it or by 'observing' games just to happen and drawing conclusions. In ASL there might be many options that will take a loong time to come up for the first time (and with it the possibility to learn from it) - take the example of Controlling a Building by an AFV falling into the Cellar and the Crew surviving.

On the other hand, the last example might just be one of the things AI might do. Things hardly anyone has ever thought about.

von Marwitz
 

MajorDomo

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Basically, we have seen computers master checkers, backgammon, go, chess, medical diagnosis, drug prescription, plane landing, vehicle control...

I went to high school with one of the Northwestern Chess 3.0 authors (Keith Gorlen who changed his name from Gorlewski). I could defeat it in the 1960s, today every PC program out there would defeat me easily (as I have learned).

There were always detractors saying that computers could not master XYZ because they were somehow not creative, too mechanical, programmed by humans....

This is all BS!

Computers can master any intelligence task that humans can master, plus many that they cannot. The learning computers are extending civilizations knowledge in many areas and will continue.
 
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