How to become better at using AFVs in ASL?

STAVKA

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I know the rule. We both know the AFV doesn't "wish" to enter another Location. It "wishes" to stay right where it is. Secondly, C1/D1 are illegal destinations
If the AFV is in C2 (not VBM) who could it be illegal, and D1 is always allowed not illegal from C2. We both know what the word wish means but still you feel it should mean something else.
 

Sparafucil3

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If the AFV is in C2 (not VBM) who could it be illegal, and D1 is always allowed not illegal from C2. We both know what the word wish means but still you feel it should mean something else.
The picture looked in bypass to me. I don't play much DASL. You're correct, the unit could move to either Location. The text said "even in bypass" hence my confusion.
-- jim
 

The Purist

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One thing I haven't seen mentioned but I have used (and seen used) is 'platoon movement' for tanks with radios. Under certain circumstances, and with proper attention to the objective, moving two, or even three, tanks as a platoon can present your opponent with some uncomfortable choices during the MPh.
 

Fort

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It is very often allowed to to enter for 2 MP in bypass and delay the rest while in Motion, and if you know the rules it is 100% sure move. Old school rule know how - since the early beginning of ASL,
I cant translate the text to see what the author is trying to convey.

However, Jim is correct and the rules are clear. A vehicle cannot spend delay MP while in Motion, and a vehicle cannot end it's MPh in Motion while it has MPs remaining...unless it cannot enter the next location.

"D2.18 A vehicle is not prohibited from expending more MP to enter a hex than the minimum required, and may, as it enters a new hex, declare a higher-than-necessary MP expenditure.

D2.4 MOTION STATUS: Any Mobile vehicle...which has used its entire printed MP allotment during its MPh, without expending a MP to Stop (2.13) or Delay (2.17) at the end of that MPh, is considered in Motion and covered with a Motion counter. A vehicle may end its MPh in Motion without expending all of its MP only if it has insufficient MP remaining to enter the next hex it wishes to enter."

If one believes the vehicle can expend excess MP to make it impossible to enter the next hex in order to avoid the Delay rules, then they are wrong.

  1. Opponent wants to enter the Open Ground hex in front of the tank in bypass.
  2. It costs the vehicle 1 MP.
  3. If the vehicle has 1 MP it enters that hex.
  4. If the vehicle does not have the 1 MP it can declare ESB.
  5. If the vehicle wants to declare more than one MP to enter the hex, the player places his tank counter in the new hex and declares how many MP it will expend. D2.18 clearly states (as it enters a new hex).
  6. If the vehicle chooses to not enter the new hex, or leave its current location (as it can't change VCA and remain in the same Bypass location) and has MP remaining, it must expend a Stop MP in order to use Delay MPs.
Any other interpretation is an attempt to skirt the rules of Delay and use Delay MPs while in Motion with the added bonus of not having to expend the MPs to do so.

For instance, if an AT Gun has you in it's sight in that situation, but only saw the tank as it entered bypass for 2MP. Using the (wrong) method you espouse, you decide that you want to enter the next hex but want to use all your remaining MPs+1, and thus can't enter the new location and can stay in bypass.
How many MP's were spent in the AT gun's LOS?
Just the 2 MP to enter bypass?
All remaining MPs?
All the AFV's MPs+1?
How many ROF shots or other attacks on that AFV would be allowed?
2?
All remaining MPs?
All MP+1?
 
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STAVKA

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...A vehicle cannot spend delay MP while in Motion, and a vehicle cannot end it's MPh in Motion while it has MPs remainin
The rule is clear enough, and contradicts your claims.

D2.4 MOTION STATUS: ...A Vehicle may end its MPh in Motion without expending all of its MP only if it has insufficient MP remaining to enter the next hex it wishes to enter.
 

Fort

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The rule is clear enough, and contradicts your claims.

D2.4 MOTION STATUS: ...A Vehicle may end its MPh in Motion without expending all of its MP only if it has insufficient MP remaining to enter the next hex it wishes to enter.
Does the tank wish to enter a hex that it has insufficient MP to enter?
If not, it's good.
If it does, and chooses to enter then it enters the new hex at whatever MP expenditure the driver want to spend.

I see no contradictions whatsoever.

You can believe your fantasy if you wish, and play the game however you want. Don't think you can take that BS anywhere else and get away with it.
 

STAVKA

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Any other interpretation is an attempt to skirt the rules of Delay and use Delay MPs while in Motion with the added bonus of not having to expend the MPs to do so.

For instance, if an AT Gun has you in it's sight in that situation, but only saw the tank as it entered bypass for 2MP. Using the (wrong) method you espouse, you decide that you want to enter the next hex but want to use all your remaining MPs+1, and thus can't enter the new location and can stay in bypass.
How many MP's were spent in the AT gun's LOS?
Just the 2 MP to enter bypass?
All the AFV's MPs+1?
How many ROF shots or other attacks on that AFV would be allowed?
2? all MP+1?
Not much sense of this argument, fire the AT gun after the MPh would solve your dilemma?
 

Eagle4ty

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We'll agree to disagree.


I can't read the part not in English and I don't trust Google translate. I presume you're going to claim "I want to spend everything else I have left +1 MP to enter the next hex but I can't so I will remain here in this hex, without stopping, delaying, etc". That's not what D2.18 allows. D2.18 says you may spend more to enter a hex than the minimum, the emphasis being on entering the hex. The phrase "as it enters the new hex" explicitly states you may do so only as you enter the next hex. If you don't enter the hex, you don't get to spend more than the minimum. If you have more MP's left, you're going to have to find some other way to bleed off the MP's you have left besides resorting to that line of reasoning. -- jim
Yes, you can only use delay when you're stopped and that adds a bit more vulnerability to the AFV in bypass.
 

boylermaker

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Agree with the "standard interpretation", as I don't really understand the argument STAVKA is making--is it something along the lines of "even if your only movement option is to leave bypass into open ground, you can claim to want to enter that hex with [remaining movement points] + 1 MP, and then you can stay in bypass without spending any more MPs" ?

This is not a crazy argument, but it proves too much: i.e., if it is true, then there are no circumstances under which D2.4 would ever apply, and so I would respond that it therefore cannot be the case that this is the meaning of D2.4.

All that said, if my opponent wants to delay in bypass, I almost always let him. There is almost always no functional difference between "VBMing-and-delaying-in-motion" and "entering bypass with all your remaining MP".** Since that is the case, I have found in the past that I feel very churlish about forcing my opponent to continue moving, so I no longer do so.

(**OK, I can imagine some edge cases, where this matters, like if the bypass hexside is in LOS of one of my AT guns and the hex he might enter next is not; in these cases I would enforce the rules, but I would give my opponent the opportunity to go back in time and do the "enter bypass with all remaining MP" if that was his intention).
 

STAVKA

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Does the tank wish to enter a hex that it has insufficient MP to enter?
If not, it's good.
If it does, and chooses to enter then it enters the new hex at whatever MP expenditure the driver want to spend.

I see no contradictions whatsoever.

You can believe your fantasy if you wish, and play the game however you want. Don't think you can take that BS anywhere else and get away with it.
Klas M, Patrik M, Patrik H and James T agrees with us , your reasoning is lacking in MPs
 
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