How should this be resolved

[Stewart]

In the latter case I would expect a defender to have to shift his forces around and as a courtesy would let him do so

For the SECOND game in a row? Setup is the first skill you develop in ASL. Yet, being courteous didn't seem to help Steve in the first game. Why should he extend this same courteous behavior knowing it will not be reciprocated?

Fool me once shame on you, Fool me twice, shame on me.

 

[Stewart]

May well be illegally if placed in non concealment terrain. I've found folk do that with things like graveyards.

True that, but the brand new rat charts came out...and I think that wasn't part of the errata (having them listed as ?ment terrain)

 

[Vinnie]

True that, but the brand new rat charts came out...and I think that wasn't part of the errata (having them listed as ?ment terrain)

Graveyard, crag, gully and stream are the ones I've seen folk make the mistake with. Ok, not stream personally but I coukd see it happening.
Crag and graveyard are an easy enough mistake to make as many think that if the hex has tem, then you can set up concealed (or hip a gun) in them. Nuance, Nuance, nuance.

 

[klasmalmstrom]

I am not 100% sure how this played out (so my comments should be taken for what it is), but if I had detected something set up wrong/illegally before I started with my setup, I would point it out before starting to do my setup. If my opponent then fixed the problem and also shifted around his setup, I wouldn't have an issue with that.

Now, if I did not see it before I did my setup and sent the setup file and we both only noticed it after we were ready to start - that's another issue, IMO. If that was the case here, then if it were me who made that misstake I would just remove the "?" counters.

 

[lightspeed]

Given the fact that HIP units can be moved to any location without detection in VASL makes the reporting in the delayed notes necessary. Just as you write the HIP units down in a FtF tourney, so you do in a VASL tournament.

Writing things down? What is this, the 16th century?!

I take a photo of my set up, and closeups of HIP units.

I agree with you: having some record is, at worst, good etiquette. I'm sure most tournaments have specific
rules about it. I've never asked for nor been asked to show evidence. But it's always there.

It is situations such as this that give tournaments a bad name, imho. That being said, unfortunate events/people
are in the extreme minority.

indy

 

[Stewart]

This person in particular runs tournaments and has the illegal placement of units penalty and HIP recording requirement as one of his first rules, yet doesn't seem to want to follow them.
No the person isn't Gov Newsom

5. All HIP units and fortifications must be recorded prior to the start of play using the VASL delayed Notes option. Additionally, a copy of this information can be emailed to the Tournament Director. All written information is final once the first DR is made. If, at the game’s end, someone is found to have placed a unit/fortification in the wrong spot, that player forfeits any victory...

When you get accused of calling your opponent a cheat when requesting HIP status or eliminating illegally placed counters, yet they get to ignore Rule 5. Gotta love it...

 

[Sparafucil3]

Me think the lady doth protest too much. -- jim

 

[SSlunt]

Me think the lady doth protest too much. -- jim

Do you even know what the quote references? I suggest that you should go back and read a little Shakespeare or get a copy of the Coles notes.

It would be more helpful if you answered the question than just doing Ad Hominem attacks

 

[Sparafucil3]

Do you even know what the quote references? I suggest that you should go back and read a little Shakespeare or get a copy of the Coles notes.

It would be more helpful if you answered the question than just doing Ad Hominem attacks

I have answered the question, several times. See post 59 for the most recent example. I have said--and I repeat here--we're we playing in the first instance, I would have let you bring your unit on. More importantly, when my turn ended, I would have likely reminded you that your units came on this turn and not to forget to set them up. If you had forgot to set them up, I would have trusted to your honest about the situation and that wouldn't take advantage of a break you shouldn't have known about. In the second instance, I would have allowed him to re-setup completely since you hadn't set up yet. You aren't harmed by anything done here. Perhaps you helped him learn a rule in the process.

WRT the delay notes or note to the TD, I would not have insisted personally. I have played over 3000 ASL scenarios. I have played most of that in person. I have played close to 1000 games on VASL. In all that time, I have never once had anyone demand "proof" of placement. Sure, I record my placement at tournaments. I keep notes on all my games played in case I play them again. I have the proof. No one has ever insisted I give it to them in advance. No one has ever insisted on using delayed notes. Only once have I asked to see the placement of a HIP unit. In that case, it was a HIP observer on level 2 which placed an AR on both sides of a giant woods mass and there was no way it had LOS to all the places it placed an AR. Even then, I asked politely, explained what I was seeing, and was a decent human being trying to resolve the issue in a friendly way. I would never ascribe to malice, that which can be explained by a simple mistake. In my case, the guy had forgot about the blind-hex calculations. He wasn't trying to cheat me, he had just made a mistake. If you put someone on the defensive by attacking their integrity, they are going to attack back. That's human nature.

From the outside looking in, it sounds like a couple of players allowed emotion to get the better of them. Just my .02 -- jim