How should this be resolved

[lightspeed]

Steve,

I think the initial mistake (not setting up reinforcements) belongs to both of you, for
the same reason.

I once saw a guy in a tournament...he noticed his opponent hadn't set up reinforcements,
and asked once "Are you forgetting anything?" His opponent said he didn't think so, and
then noticed at the end of the Rally phase. This guy wouldn't let it go.

I think that is absurd. He knew his opponent had forgotten: Over beer he was
claiming he tried to remind his opponent and ridiculed how "stupid" his opponent was.

I told him that was poor sportsmanship. He stopped laughing. I left.

You made a mistake by not setting up your reinforcements. It's a very minor one, imho.

If your opponent knew you had reinforcements and didn't tell you, he made a mistake.
A larger one, imho, as it was to his benefit.

If your opponent forgot you had reinforcements, your opponent made the same mistake
you did.

Either way, your opponent is in the wrong as well.

jmho.

indy

PS: I'm assuming that your choice of where to bring on your reinforcements
was not influenced by what happened earlier. Knowing you, I am sure your choice wasn't.

 

[Michael Dorosh]

If your opponent knew you had reinforcements and didn't tell you, he made a mistake.
A larger one, imho, as it was to his benefit.

It's like sports fans who cheer for an opposing star player to get injured. If my team is going to win, I want them to beat the absolute best the other guys have, then there is no question about who 'deserved' it. To each his own, but I would think winning or losing on a technicality isn't nearly as satisfying as letting skill and luck determine the outcome - as opposed to memory.

 

[SSlunt]

Could they only - per the scenario card - enter on that Turn? (or was it and "on/after" situation?)

My reinforcements could only come on in one hex(on or adjacent) and on turn 2

Thanks everyone for you comments.

 

[Juan SantaX]

If you were to only play people who never screwed up a set up zone or a victory condition, your list of opponents would be whittled down to nothing in very short order....

I agree. So you have to give them the chance to undo his mistake at first notice!

 

[mgmasl]

Opponent must be fired

 

[Michael Dorosh]

Opponent must be fired

Harsh

 

[lightspeed]

My reinforcements could only come on in one hex(on or adjacent) and on turn 2

Thanks everyone for you comments.

For me, that's the smoking gun that your opponent is one who should likely be avoided.

There are far too many people you could play ASL with that behave much better than this.
If you are feeling charitable, you could chalk it up to a heat of the moment thing. If it was a heat
of the moment thing, I would expect a profuse apology from your opponent. If there is none
forthcoming, I think that could say a lot about your opponent's character.

indy

 

[Larry]

My reinforcements could only come on in one hex(on or adjacent) and on turn 2

Thanks everyone for you comments.

Pretty hard to imagine how setting up the reinforcements late would have caused an advantage ... broken unit, etc. Just poor judgment to extract an advantage at the price of honor.

 

[STAVKA]

I think you missed the point . -- jim

Excuse me, 15h to prove a point, got it

 

[Sparafucil3]

Excuse me, 15h to prove a point, got it

No you're catching on. -- jim

 

[Stewart]

It is a game. Paraphrasing Nadir, it takes two people to get it half right. ASL is best played as a cooperative contest.

Reminds me of a wrestling coach when asked before a match if it was going to be a problem if his team had stickers on their head gear. He said he didn't care. Came down to the last match and his team needed one more point. He pointed to the ref that the sticker was illegal and demanded his one point. He got it and won the dual. Don't be that guy.

Not exactly the same comparison. But I think I understand

 

[Stewart]

and if it's sleaze or cheating, you obviously need the win more than I do, so have it.

But I won't judge the moral character of a player I don't know, based on retelling of one side of a story I didn't witness. He might have had good reasons for his actions.

What would be a good reason?
If this were you?
Incoming reinforcements would have no advantage in the MPh as was stated. This isn't the case in all games.

 

[WuWei]

What would be a good reason?
If this were you?

I don't see a good reason. That's why I said that I would have allowed the setup in the MPh. But I grant the possibility that the opponent who denied it had such a good reason. Or thought he had one. Or didn't have one but other circumstances excuse his action.

 

[bendizoid]

Best way to resolve this:

 

[SSlunt]

The conclusion / aftermath
Since the debacle of the game we agreed to to play a different scenario.
The fun does not end.
He sets up first and I set up second on board.
He is the defender with a number of OB given "?" . He sets up his troops and sent me the file. His set up has two illegally placed ? counters.
I sent the file back and asked him if he would please remove the two counters so I could finish my setup - There was a Tank with one of the illegally placed "?" and I needed to confirm the Tanks TCA and CA. He sends back the file. But he actually sent back the file where he removed the "?" from the tank but rearranged 25% of his other stacks.

When the TD is informed of this new action he just tells me to re do my set up because my opponent was Gracious enough to play another game.

I also requested that he send the TD or at least put in the Vasl Delayed Notes section, the location of his AT gun including CA. I never received confirmation from the TD or the player that this was done.
We were given through the end of a particular day to finish the game. After I requested the about information the TD contacts me about mid day of the partiuclar day and informs me that he is giving the Win to my opponent and considers "my lack of courtesy" offensive and also accuses me of claiming that my opponent is cheating
I am then informed that my opponent is a TD in his own right.

At this point I will never participate in this Tourney again or when it goes back to FTF.

 

[Michael Dorosh]

But he actually sent back the file where he removed the "?" from the tank but rearranged 25% of his other stacks.

Just curious if the consensus is that the rearrangement of the other stacks is considered egregious? Not trying to diminish the rest of your experience, which speaks very loudly for itself, but am wondering on this. I think it actually suggests a good deal of patience and courtesy on your part if you didn't say anything about it to the other player. My thought on this is if he muffed a cou

On rereading your post, I misunderstood - when you said illegally placed, I now presume you meant placed on ineligible units - but within the correct starting area? For some reason I assumed you meant outside his specified set up zone. In the latter case I would expect a defender to have to shift his forces around and as a courtesy would let him do so (I'm sure I've actually had that experience in the past). But illegally concealing a couple of units and then making major alterations to the set up when it is pointed out does seem unwarranted. The rest of it seems brutal, sorry you had that experience.

 

[Vinnie]

Just curious if the consensus is that the rearrangement of the other stacks is considered egregious? Not trying to diminish the rest of your experience, which speaks very loudly for itself, but am wondering on this. I think it actually suggests a good deal of patience and courtesy on your part if you didn't say anything about it to the other player. My thought on this is if he muffed a cou

On rereading your post, I misunderstood - when you said illegally placed, I now presume you meant placed on ineligible units - but within the correct starting area? For some reason I assumed you meant outside his specified set up zone. In the latter case I would expect a defender to have to shift his forces around and as a courtesy would let him do so (I'm sure I've actually had that experience in the past). But illegally concealing a couple of units and then making major alterations to the set up when it is pointed out does seem unwarranted. The rest of it seems brutal, sorry you had that experience.

May well be illegally if placed in non concealment terrain. I've found folk do that with things like graveyards.

 

[Eagle4ty]

The conclusion / aftermath
Since the debacle of the game we agreed to to play a different scenario.
The fun does not end.
He sets up first and I set up second on board.
He is the defender with a number of OB given "?" . He sets up his troops and sent me the file. His set up has two illegally placed ? counters.
I sent the file back and asked him if he would please remove the two counters so I could finish my setup - There was a Tank with one of the illegally placed "?" and I needed to confirm the Tanks TCA and CA. He sends back the file. But he actually sent back the file where he removed the "?" from the tank but rearranged 25% of his other stacks.

When the TD is informed of this new action he just tells me to re do my set up because my opponent was Gracious enough to play another game.

I also requested that he send the TD or at least put in the Vasl Delayed Notes section, the location of his AT gun including CA. I never received confirmation from the TD or the player that this was done.
We were given through the end of a particular day to finish the game. After I requested the about information the TD contacts me about mid day of the partiuclar day and informs me that he is giving the Win to my opponent and considers "my lack of courtesy" offensive and also accuses me of claiming that my opponent is cheating
I am then informed that my opponent is a TD in his own right.

At this point I will never participate in this Tourney again or when it goes back to FTF.

Just to close things out on a high note though, you should perhaps contact the TD and and least let him know you were not accusing the other player of cheating, just simply mere incompetence. That should smooth things over for the future.

 

[Sparafucil3]

When the TD is informed of this new action he just tells me to re do my set up because my opponent was Gracious enough to play another game.

Personally, I would have continued with the setup. You weren't harmed in any way by his re-arranging his counters. I personally wouldn't call his re-arrangement bad form.

I also requested that he send the TD or at least put in the Vasl Delayed Notes section, the location of his AT gun including CA. I never received confirmation from the TD or the player that this was done.

You were within your rights to do so. I would have complied. I personally (tournament or informal play) never ask my opponent to do this. That's just me. If you're worried about this, it should really bake your noodle that I can create a dice roller allowing me to roll anything I wanted at any time I wanted and you couldn't detect it. You want to use the random.org, that's OK. Even better for me as you trust it. My dice roller will use that, insert my desired DR into the VASL stream and account for it on the statistics later. You would never know it. Nothing client side can be trusted if you don't trust the player.

We were given through the end of a particular day to finish the game. After I requested the about information the TD contacts me about mid day of the partiuclar day and informs me that he is giving the Win to my opponent and considers "my lack of courtesy" offensive and also accuses me of claiming that my opponent is cheating
I am then informed that my opponent is a TD in his own right.

I am sorry to hear you had such a bad experience. I don't know enough about the situation at this point to feel qualified to speak further on the issue. -- jim

 

[Stewart]

Given the fact that HIP units can be moved to any location without detection in VASL makes the reporting in the delayed notes necessary. Just as you write the HIP units down in a FtF tourney, so you do in a VASL tournament.