How much "historic potential" remains for scenarios and CGs design for ASL

MrP

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Don Petros said:
- PTO: Meiktila (sp?) - have read a littel, sounds very cool. Anybody know much about this? I'd be interested.
Don
Meiktila looks pretty cool, town on a lake with dug in Japanesedefending against a multiple pronged attack by 255 Indian Division. Shermans, Daimler ACs, Gurkhas, VCs galore. Many tank hunter heroes and not a cave in sight. Try Louis Allens "Burma, the Longest War", Perrets "Tank Tracks To Rangoon" and the Osprey book on the battle for a start. It even made me rough up a couple of scenarios (not that I have any talent for that).

Cheers

Ian
 

daniel zucker

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Bjoernar said:
Hello

This is three related questions for all of you that design scenarioes/CGs and all others as well.

How much historical material is probably existing that still may be used for scenario/CG design?

Are there many potential scenarioes/CGs that can be developed during the next 20 years?

Is ASL scenario/CG design close to an end?

Regards
Bjørnar
Of the 4000 plus scenarios I know of only one scenario that depicts any of the action of an entire campaign !!!! :shock:

I'm talking about my own privet Idaho of a campaign game idea, :love: but how to do it? I know from all of the research that I’ve done (and with the limited research material available plus that I can’t read French doesn’t help me any) that most of the actions would be of like the one scenario that exists or very similar to scenarios that already exist.

This leads me to the real question. Is it worth making a campaign game and scenarios to cover an action that really doesn’t seem to interest any one but me?

What am I talking about?

Operation Ironbound the invasion of Madagascar. :horse:

The overall picture is that in 42 the French were under German control and ‘MIGHT†have been thinking of letting the Japanese use the French colonies as a sub base to cut the British shipping rout to Egypt. The British invaded at the northern end of the island where the only real deep water sea base was located. The campaign consisted of one big battle for the sea port and lots of small fights like the scenario ‘The Long Road’ and fights at several villages along the way to the south of the island where the French Governor surrendered. Most of the fighting was done by native troops on the French side and South Africans for the British.



It interests me but does it sound interesting to anyone else? So to answeer Bjørnar question there is lots of historical material existing that still may be used for scenario/CG design.



Daniel
 

macca

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I have submitted two early-war CG using geo-boards to MMP.

One is a three CG date battle between Italians and Australians at Bardia. In 'Demonstration By Fire' the Australians must capture three Italian fortified posts. This one could be played in a day.

The second is 'Across the Litani', depicting the crossing of the Litani River during the opening stage of the Syrian Campaign. This pits Australian infantry and British Commandos against tough French colonial troops and foreign legion. Both sides have lots of early war armor - ATRs are very useful in this one. Goes for several CG dates.
 

daniel zucker

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SGT Holst said:
Hi-

heres a link to Flames of War, they have some info on Operation Iron bound.

http://www.battlefront.co.nz/Article.asp?ArticleID=160

Scott
Thanks Scott

the sight has all the basice info that I know but it is presented in a nice and easy to read format. The links are good for the OOB of the French and the South African units.

Dniel
 

Bjoernar

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Hi guys



Thanks for answers so far. I understand from your answers that there is still a lot of potential material for new ASL scenarioes/CG. That very good :) I look forward to play some of these scenarioes/CGs in the future.


Bjørnar
 
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Potential CG's

My impression is that once BV3 and AoO are finally published that the floodgate is going to open up for MMP. Except for ASLSK#3 and HP (and who knows where that is in development), that there will be a flood of completed HASL modules that will enter the preorder page. I think VotG will probably enter the pre-order page and fulfill it's preorder in less than a month, probably sooner, and then the flow of other ASL projects that have been on the back-burner will take off. I feel that '06 will be a banner year for ASL. And to bring this post back on topic, once those projects that have been delayed by MMP get published, a lot of potential designers wil realise that their favorite HASL can get published by MMP and so the amount of submissions and design work will take off. I don't think we will ever want for new ASL scenarios and HASL's in our lifetime. :)
 

Keith Todd

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BV Scenarios

LeConte Crater said:
My impression is that once BV3 and AoO are finally published that the floodgate is going to open up for MMP. Except for ASLSK#3 and HP (and who knows where that is in development), that there will be a flood of completed HASL modules that will enter the preorder page. I think VotG will probably enter the pre-order page and fulfill it's preorder in less than a month, probably sooner, and then the flow of other ASL projects that have been on the back-burner will take off. I feel that '06 will be a banner year for ASL. And to bring this post back on topic, once those projects that have been delayed by MMP get published, a lot of potential designers wil realise that their favorite HASL can get published by MMP and so the amount of submissions and design work will take off. I don't think we will ever want for new ASL scenarios and HASL's in our lifetime. :)
Are you from the 3 Sisters area? Below is your list of BV scenarios

1 Fighting Withdrawal

2 Mila 18

3 The Czerniakow Bridgehead

4 The Commissar’s House

5 In Sight of the Volga

6 Red Packets

7 Dash for the Bridge

8 The Fugitives

9 To the Square

10 The Citadel

Scenarios 123-136 are re-printed scenarios from the General and the Annuals (and Journal 1). Substantive changes are indicated.

123 The Borders are Burning (was A10).

124 On The Borderline (was A16).

125 First Crisis at Army Group North (was M; updated to increase turn length to 8, and to add one Russian LMG and 447 [to 8]).

126 Commando Schenke (was A80; updated to add one Russian 447 [to 11] and decrease German Sniper [to 2].

127 Land Leviathans (was Q).

128 The Defense of Luga (was W).

129 Slamming of the Door (was A7; updated to revise the circled numbers in the Turn Record Chart for the turn of entry of the German reinforcements and their relationship to the VC; circled numbers are now 2 in turn 2. 4 in turn 3, and 6 in turn 4. The number of CVP required for the Russians is increased by the circled number of the turn of entry of the reinforcements).

130 Debacle at Korosten (was A106).

131 The Penetration of Rostov (was A17).

132 Hill 253.5 (was T7).

133 Block Busting in Bokruisk (was J8).

134 Counterattack on the Vistula (was A21; updated to revise the VC to increase the German CVP cap from 19 to 24).

135 Acts of Defiance (was A68).

136 The Agony of Doom (was A8; updated to revise the VC to decrease the number of multi-hex buildings that the Russians must control from 5 to 4).


Keith
 

Michael Dorosh

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Edit - found it on the MMP website....

Edited again - can anyone tell me the scenario numbers for the following For King and Country scenarios? Google has found me nothing...

A Desperate Affair
Dreil Team
Going to Church
Hill of Death
Point of the Sword
Tettau's Attack
Throwing Down the Gauntlet
 
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Evan Sherry

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There is a lot of scenario material out there. The most important part of further scenario development is the continued introduction of new geomorphic mapboards. We can continue to design scenarios on these boards but we need new boards with new LOSs, and combinations of terrain just to make the situation different from the ones we already have. The problem right now is that there are a few boards that fit the general requirements of mainstream ETO and East Front actions and they keep getting used over and over by designers (including myself). In the PTO, I am finding myself bored with the limited geo-board choices for my scenarios. Lot of PTO actions involve attacking jungle/woods covered hills. Our choices of boards are mostly limited to boards 36, 39, and 50 (and to some extent board 2) for the most part. After a while, it becomes difficult to make a PTO jungle hill scenario different enough from another scenario to make them interesting.

Bottom line, there is a lot of scenario material remaining, but I need more geo-boards and overlays (especially transparent overlays) to keep my scenario designs fresh.

Evan Sherry
Editor, Schwerpunkt
 

Kaph

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wrongway149 said:
One subject that would make a great CG, and I hope to do some day, would be Longstop Hill (Tunisia). There were two actions here (Dec '42- when it earned the nickname 'Christmas Hill") and April '43, when the Germans finally pulled back (they were in danger of being cut off, rather than kicked off, IIRC)

We have: German paratroops, Italians, Green Americans (with lots of artillery), British Veterans (CoLdstream Guards) and even Free-French Algerians. This was also the action that really saved the Churchill Tanks (which may have been a bad decision in the long run) after a mediocre showing at El Alamein. It is also claimed to be the battle in which the first Tiger tank was destrotyed by another tank.

Unfortunately, there isn't a lot of information on this battle; I have probably found more on Ponyri (which hasn't been easy). If that changes, I'll be all over it in 2007 or so.
Pete I read a book a long time ago that talked about this battle, at least it sounds familiar. It was Rommel’s war in Africa / by Wolf Heckmann ; translated from the German by Stephen Seago ; foreword by Sir John Hackett. It was a good book, and what I can remember it did give some good detail. Hope this helps.

rdk
 
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wrongway149

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Kaph said:
Pete I read a book a long time ago that talked about this battle, at least it sounds familiar. It was Rommel’s war in Africa / by Wolf Heckmann ; translated from the German by Stephen Seago ; foreword by Sir John Hackett. It was a good book, and what I can remember it did give some good detail. Hope this helps.

rdk
Thanks, I'll try and find it!
 
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ASL geo boards

I want to post a reply to Evan's comments on more geomorphic boards. For years I have asked and hoped for some big, wide open boards. I think that is what is lacking for eastern front scenarios. I know that the desert boards are supposed to be multi-purpose 'scrub/steppes' boards, but very few designers use them in conjunction with other 'green background' geo boards.

I sincerely wish that MMP would 'design' a green background board with NO terrain on them. None. Maybe 2 or 3 boards, just so that they could be numbered, and then designers could use overlays to add terrain if needed.

I am think that these boards would be pretty easy to design ( :) ), and I also think that potential sceanrio designers would eat these boards up.

Thoughts?
fsp
 

Don Petros

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Regarding geoboards, I agree that we need certain types which are lacking. The open Ukrainian, Russian terrain is lacking especially. To that end I've already finsished 2 'multi-geomorphic' boards with sparce terrain which are designed to give designers the ability to prepare more Russian front scenarios. They are not the 3 boards already designed and submitted to MMP which I think will be used in the Russian front AP (56-58?).
Multi-geomorphic is an idea identified by Ian D. which allows the board user to fold the board back upon it's Row Q 'hinge' and butt it up against another similarly folded board. Effectively, 6 different standard-size geoboard configurations are possible with 2 of such type of boards. The Normandy boards 53 & 54 (or 55?) are also multi-geomorphic.
These new 2 boards mentioned are IMO the most versitile boards yet and would really give us a lot to work with in terms of Russian design. Place them next to the Russian AP boards, and you can really do a decent job representing the larger areas in the Ukraine while still providing interesting ASL terrain (ASL seems to work better with adequate amounts of definable terrain) I've sent them to MMP and hope that they pick them up.
Don
 

wrongway149

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LeConte Crater said:
I sincerely wish that MMP would 'design' a green background board with NO terrain on them. None. Maybe 2 or 3 boards, just so that they could be numbered, and then designers could use overlays to add terrain if needed.

I am think that these boards would be pretty easy to design ( :) ), and I also think that potential sceanrio designers would eat these boards up.

Thoughts?
fsp
The idea of double-sides boards came up while back, and I think a plain green hex grid (Maybe a few with minimal road configuration or some woods or brush here and there) on the flip side of every board would be best. Then a desinger could use any board not being used for the scenario already and just beef it up with a few overlays.

Pete 'gimme the boards and I'll give you scenarios" Shelling
 
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Geo Boards

Pete,

I had not even thought about duel sided boards, but of course that becomes practical as the ASL system is being switched over to the new cardstock style boards, which makes printing on both sides possible and practical.

I hope that this is something at MMP considers in the future. That being said, I will be interested to see what the new Action Pack boards look like. I, for one, am hoping for some less constrained terrain and some longer LOS for East Front scenarios.

fsp
 

wrongway149

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LeConte Crater said:
Pete,

I hope that this is something at MMP considers in the future. That being said, I will be interested to see what the new Action Pack boards look like. I, for one, am hoping for some less constrained terrain and some longer LOS for East Front scenarios.

fsp
Bd 56- town in the middle, grain/orchards about. Not as open as board 48, the town is bit more beefy. (But not as cramped as board 46). Kind of like board 17 meets board 48

Bd 57- small village stretched along a road on one side of the board like board 49 meets board 4

Bd 58- large level 3 hill with gullies and scattered orchards woods. Bd 2 meets Bd 18.

You will get it, and you will be able to use the LOS in at least some of the scenarios!
 

Jim McLeod

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Don Petros said:
Regarding geoboards, I agree that we need certain types which are lacking. The open Ukrainian, Russian terrain is lacking especially. To that end I've already finsished 2 'multi-geomorphic' boards with sparce terrain which are designed to give designers the ability to prepare more Russian front scenarios. They are not the 3 boards already designed and submitted to MMP which I think will be used in the Russian front AP (56-58?).
Multi-geomorphic is an idea identified by Ian D. which allows the board user to fold the board back upon it's Row Q 'hinge' and butt it up against another similarly folded board. Effectively, 6 different standard-size geoboard configurations are possible with 2 of such type of boards. The Normandy boards 53 & 54 (or 55?) are also multi-geomorphic.
These new 2 boards mentioned are IMO the most versitile boards yet and would really give us a lot to work with in terms of Russian design. Place them next to the Russian AP boards, and you can really do a decent job representing the larger areas in the Ukraine while still providing interesting ASL terrain (ASL seems to work better with adequate amounts of definable terrain) I've sent them to MMP and hope that they pick them up.
Don
Don, double wide maps (20 x 33 hexes) are the way to go. Make them geomorphic on the edges and you will have a nice sized area to work with in the centre.

Or you can really ramp it up with triple wide (30 x 33 hexes) boards. Making all new boards in the SK style makes this much more practical compared to the old board style.

And designing mapboards that are truly theatre specific would also be a good idea.






=Jim=
 

Michael Dorosh

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I think a terrific, unmined, source of scenarios would be the 2nd Canadian Division's fight to open up the South Beveland peninsula. The division fought for the month of October at the neck of the peninsula, then west towards Walcheren Island. Would be neat to add an operational layer to this fight then fight it out on SL boards, sort of like Combat Mission: Campaigns is promising to do electronically.



The Germans were a mix of veteran paratroopers and Army stomach battalions, with StuG support. Seems to be a fairly balanced proposition.

At a more manageable scale, I think an HASL module based on Hoogerheide and Woensdrecht would be appropriate with reasonable force sizes. Seems about the same size as other HASL modules.



And the beauty is that none of this has ever even been touched by SL or ASL. There is plenty of history left to be mined, if we can tear ourselves away from the Bulge, Kursk, and Stalingrad.
 

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There's also a bunch of info on this campaign from the British side in "From Omaha To The Scheldt", concentrating on the Royal Marines. Surely there must be an RM CG or set of scenarios out there......

Cheers

Ian
 
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