How many resid is in the hex?

[Chris NL]

Hello all,
british unit fire out of +2 smoke at a bypassing german. how many resid is left in the hex?

4fp +2 smoke +1 fire out of smoke -1 ffnam. so i think there wil be 2 resid left in the woods hex?

 

[Chris NL]

8.26 EFFECT OF DRM: The amount of Residual FP left by any attack is
reduced by one IFT column for each positive DRM ( caused solely by conditions
outside (including CX, BU, Stun, leadership modifier, orhexside/bridge
TEM of the target Location which modified (or could have modified; B9.31)
the To-Hit/IFT DR, but excluding Height Advantage and LV DRM )


There are no pos. DRM outside, smoke was counted in the shot? The shot will be punished twice?

 

[Chris NL]

Any LOS/non-Residual-fire
which is traced out of or within (not through or into) a SMOKE Location
must add +1 Hindrance DRM (to its IFT or To Hit DR if a fire attack) in addition
to the normal effects of that SMOKE

 

[Robin Reeve]

The Smoke hindrance DRM applies out of the target hex.

8.26 EFFECT OF DRM: The amount of Residual FP left by any attack is
reduced by one IFT column for each positive DRM caused solely by conditions outside [...] the target hex.

So the +3 DRM reduce the 2 FP base RF to well under 1 FP.
No DRM outside a RF apply to the RF effect. This is why such DRM of the original attack is reduced.

 

[zgrose]

I'm not sure I'm following the "punished twice" concept.
If you fire a 4FP+1 shot (lets say a Grain in the way), you will leave 1 Residual FP. The Grain applied to the shot AND to the RFP. Don't positive DRM always "punish twice"?

I don't believe any Residual will be left by that shot in the OP.

 

[Sparafucil3]

8.26 EFFECT OF DRM: The amount of Residual FP left by any attack is
reduced by one IFT column for each positive DRM caused solely by conditions outside [...] the target hex.

I was going to quote the rule but I see you did it already. -- jim

 

[Robin Reeve]

I deleted my first answer, which happened to be correct: Chris had me doubting.
Doubt about oneself is a good methodological start... with some necessary limitations.

 

[Chris NL]

i was not sure about the "outside" , smoke is inside the hex but still reduce rfp?

 

[Sparafucil3]

i was not sure about the "outside" , smoke is inside the hex but still reduce rfp?

Everything about "inside" or "outside" is relative to the TARGET hex, not the shooter's hex. The SMOKE in the shooter's hex is OUTSIDE the target hex and thus it reduces the RFP. -- jim

 

[DVexile]

A helpful context is that RFP is designed so that no one has to “remember” where it came from in order for the correct DRMs to end up being effectively applied.

Thus any DRM outside the target hex are “remembered” by shifting the RFP by columns before placing the marker. For example, if shooting through two hexes of grain the RFP will be shifted by two so that no one has to recall that the RFP came from the unit shooting through the grain. Any future unit would benefit from the grain hinderance and so we “remember“ that by applying the DRM “permanently“ to the RFP itself.

Any DRM inside the target hex don’t need to be “remembered” as they are a property of the hex itself, so they don’t affect the RFP even though they might affect the original shot. So someone taking +3 DRM for being in a stone building does not affect the RFP. If another unit moves into the RFP in the stone building it gets the DRM applied at that time, but if a third unit moves into bypass through that RFP they don’t get the DRM. If we had shifted the RFP because of the in hex stone building that would unduly benefit a later bypassing unit moving through the RFP.

Note, it isn’t a perfect system! A stone building with a wall is around it is something to be very careful of when you are doing DFF!

 

[klasmalmstrom]

So someone taking +3 DRM for being in a stone building does not affect the RFP. If another unit moves into the RFP in the stone building it gets the DRM applied at that time, but if a third unit moves into bypass through that RFP they don’t get the DRM.

Even a unit bypassing outside of the stone building gets the +3 TEM...

A8.2:
"All non-hexside TEM and SMOKE/FFE-Hindrance DRM of the target Location apply to a Residual FP attack (even vs Bypassing units)."

So a unit bypassing a stone building where there's Residual FP will get the +3 TEM...

 

[DVexile]

Even a unit bypassing outside of the stone building gets the +3 TEM...

A8.2:
"All non-hexside TEM and SMOKE/FFE-Hindrance DRM of the target Location apply to a Residual FP attack (even vs Bypassing units)."

So a unit bypassing a stone building where there's Residual FP will get the +3 TEM...

Duh! Of course. Thanks for the correction.

 

[johnl]

Even a unit bypassing outside of the stone building gets the +3 TEM...

A8.2:
"All non-hexside TEM and SMOKE/FFE-Hindrance DRM of the target Location apply to a Residual FP attack (even vs Bypassing units)."

So a unit bypassing a stone building where there's Residual FP will get the +3 TEM...

Ha! Another thing I've been playing wrong [adds to list]