How important do you think AoO is in the ASL universe?

Dr Zaius

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The topic of the tardiness of AoO has certainly generated it's full share of posts over the years. There is no doubt the product has taken far longer than anyone would have guessed (or have wanted for that matter), but do you really think AoO merits all the fuss?

Why do I ask?

Well, AoO isn't what many ASLers would consider a "core component" of the ASL system, unlike the Russians, Germans, Americans, and Commonwealth forces. Still, there seems to be a very strong interest in this particular module. Why do you think that is? Is it simply because it's the last module of its kind for the system, or do you really think there is that much interest in these particular forces and the battles they played a part in?
 

Reepicheep

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Don Maddox said:
Is is because it is simply the last module of its kind for the system...
Even that can't strictly be the reason IMO, since Haaka Paalle is still another "core" module on the horizon covering the Finns and with a new mounted mapboard.
 

Fred Ingram

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I have somhow managed to live without it so far. When it comes out - it comes out. No big deal. I have tons of stuff to play in the meantime. People who keep badgering MMP about this need to get a more well rounded life. :cool: :cool: :cool:
 

WaterRabbit

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I guess the answer depends upon how long you have been playing and how many scenario you have. If you are like me and have been playing since 1979 (SL/COI/COD/GI) and then ASL since '83 or '84 and have more than 1000 games under your belt, then AoO is pretty darn important. (Could be 1500 or 2000, I tried keeping track with a database for a year, but I didn't like the way it influnced my approach to the game :( -- too much focus on wining and not enjoying.)

However, if playing desert or jungle scenarios makes you think twice, and a Seaborne Assault is right out, then it is not important at all.

I think AoO has been a big anchor around MMP's neck. If they had busted this out within the first two years, they would have had quite a bit of freedom to concentrate on other projects. And more importantly, we wouldn't have Listers crying and moaning over here. They already made the ASLML unfit for civil debate, now they are over here doing it. This thread http://www.warfarehq.com/forums/showthread.php?t=3352 has devolved into a bunch of former listers name calling and making personal attacks. The same tired dance they have been doing for the last five years.

So this is the main reason AoO HAS to ship and soon!
 

sgtono

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For those without the mounted boards 49 and 50, I would imagine it is getting to be a necessity. Other than that it is, IMOH, more of the idea that the ASL core module line is "FOR SURE" being supported and continued.

Hobby completism is also a factor.

After playing some of the AOO playtest scenarios, I am looking very much forward to having the Axis Minors complement my choices. It will provide something "different".

And there is alot more to just the Axis Minors, there is the SASL and other goodies that have been promised with it.

Keith
 

Reepicheep

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sgtono said:
And there is alot more to just the Axis Minors, there is the SASL and other goodies that have been promised with it.
That's a very good point... I will be quite looking forward to trying an Axis Minors SASL campaign, or potentially play against them in another campaign.
 

The Purist

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I would like it to be published so that we have all the basics covered and development can concentrate on HASL. The Finns are already in the game and I am not sure that the Finnish front really needs an entire module. However, that is a debate for someplace else.

I enjoy the Italians, Chinese, Minor Allies and other underdogs. You have to admit that beating the New Zealanders at Tokrouna with Italians is a blast. Kicking commie butt and taking out T-34s with Rumanians or Slovaks can only add to the fun.
 
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The 'importance' of AOO:

1) completion of the core system.
2) a promise kept to us "oldtimers".
3) new vehicles and ordnance to become acquainted with. does everyone remember how cool the Nimbus looked and played?
4) the knowledge that Valor of the Guards is soon to go on the PXXX system.
 

Aries

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Well for starters it ain't a "core" module. Core by definition means you can't get by without it.

I get by without it just fine.

It will cost a small bundle, so it better be worth a small bundle. But being that only a fanatic (altough most of us admittedly ARE fanataics) would actually grant it core status, I don't see it being attractive simply because a bundle is a bundle however you justify it.

"Core module" seems like a phrase applied to anything that has been produced to which entirely unique force pools have been created for.

This notion (which seems unique to ASL where the term is concerned), might just as well be dragged over nto the HASL scene. Sooo which HASL modules do you think are the "core" HASL modules?

See how the word "core" in core module has lost all definitive meaning?
Not to mention all the vital core modules are out of print.

Oh yippee AoO is on the horizon, now I can play Hungarians fghting in Russia against, hmm where are the Russians.

Glad I am a long time owner, that won't occur to me at least.
 

Doughboy

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David Reinking said:
The 'importance' of AOO:

1) completion of the core system.
2) a promise kept to us "oldtimers".
3) new vehicles and ordnance to become acquainted with. does everyone remember how cool the Nimbus looked and played?
4) the knowledge that Valor of the Guards is soon to go on the PXXX system.
I do agree that the release of AOO will finally bring CLOSURE to the standard system. Though this promise was given to us too long ago to be really relevant.

Quite honestly, we already have the Axis minors from Partisan anyway so really what people are looking for are the new armour and ordanance that these folks had. In addition and probably most important are the boards (49 and 50).

Thus, the idea of MMP releasing this module as a super full blown module is nonsense and really only warrants a half box treatment like Croix de Guerre; this means that the price should not exceed more than $50 not the insane $112 price proposed. How the idea of releasing AOO morphing into a super module that exceeds the price of FKAC is maddening to say in the least. :surprise:

Having said that I want to complete the blasted system and I will pay the exorberant price for this "last" module; whether I get Haaka Paale is questionable as my two copies of Beyond Valor had the Finns to begin with. Perhaps I will anyway if not for the scenarios, then definitely for boards. I just hope the price by that point does not reach $200+ :(
 
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da priest

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Don Maddox said:
...do you really think AoO merits all the fuss?,..
Yes.

Don Maddox said:
...Well, AoO isn't what many ASLers would consider a "core component" of the ASL system,,..
What "many", just the newbies or are you checking with the groggies? Where do you get this opinion? Any thing to back it up other than personal opinion?

Don Maddox said:
... ...Is is because it is simply the last module of its kind for the system,..
This is probably it for the old guard. You have defined "core" as a dictionary definition, much like Aries(chuckle we know who he is). It is not in ASL a dictionary definition. In ASL, over the years, "core" has meant a module that presents an almost complete order of battle (infantry, Guns, AFvs, transport, etc) for a nation or group of nations,who were significant combatants in WW2, not covered in such depth by any other module.

The only such group left is the Axis Minors.

Now some may call the Finns such a module, but that should be for another discussion. In about ten years... :cheeky:
 

Roy

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For me, AoO is just another module....(sorry Ron), eventually I'm going to need the boards.

I think that AoO should be the last of it's kind. I don't need any more boards, and I think if you people were honest with yourselves, you'd realize you don't need any more boards either. If a designer can't get the kind of terrain he wants with with 50+ geomorphic boards and all the overlays, give it up.

Well over 10,000 counters, 50 boards, overlays, deluxe boards and overlays are plenty. I think that MMP would be well served to concentrate on releasing historical modules (I hesitate to use that term because I think "modules" should go the way of the dinosaur), action packs, and scenario packs for us older players, and finding the quickest way for new players to get caught up with the necessities of play.
 

cujo8-1

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The Boards

Its all about the boards!

I'll buy AOO and HP for the old-time boards that are supposed to come with them.

I'll then pick and choose historical modules as they come along.
 

Dr Zaius

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da priest said:
Fair enough.

What "many", just the newbies or are you checking with the groggies? Where do you get this opinion? Any thing to back it up other than personal opinion?
The "many" that I have seen post on the ASLML, this forum, and the UASL. I have seen a substantial number of people post remarks to this effect over the years. Some of them have just posted replies in this very thread.

And for the record, I did not express an opinion one way or the other in my post. I asked a question. ;)

In ASL, over the years, "core" has meant a module that presents an almost complete order of battle (infantry, Guns, AFvs, transport, etc) for a nation or group of nations,who were significant combatants in WW2, not covered in such depth by any other module.
Okay, now this is where it's going to get interesting. By the standards of your own definition, please expain which modules are not core modules and which ones are. They all can't be core modules or the term has no meaning at all (i.e. they would be then just be modules I should think).

Unless you are stating that any module besides an HASL should be considered a core component of the ASL system. If that's your definition of a core ASL compnent, that's fine. But I also think most people understood what I meant when I said "core" and drew a destiniction between a module containing the minors and one containing, for example, the Germans.
 

Brian W

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Don Maddox said:
By the standards of your own definition, please expain which modules are not core modules and which ones are.
The ones that go to 11 are the core modules. The ones that go to 10 are extras.
 

da priest

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Don Maddox said:
By the standards of your own definition, please expain which modules are not core modules and which ones are. ..
All the HASLs(6-8 depending on what you count)
All the DASLs(2)
Para
Partisan
The Last Hurrah

plus all the "upcoming" stuff...

Every TPP CG "Module"...HOBs B:RV, OtO etc.at least 4.; CHs All-American series(shudder), RR, etc. at least 9.

So totaling all that up at least a 2:1 ratio of add-ons to core.

And note, AH and MMP have called AoO a "core" module, since time immemorial(well it seems like that).

Now your definition seems to be: if you can't play the game without it, it's a core module. Then of course there is only one core module: BV, you simply don't get enuf markers in any of the others. The rest are add ons.
 

DLYoung70

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Personally I think the whole "core module" thing is a bit messed up, mostly because of the WoA/FKaC absurdity and the issue with the Finns. Why do the Brits get two full modules instead of one module and a scenario pack or two for the variety of theatres they participated in? Are the Finns done because they're in BV, or are they not because they're not going to be in v3 but instead in a module of their own? It's a mess. A big, ugly, disorganised mess.

AoO is completely unnecessary. What does it add? Some boards? Those couldn't have been added with more scenario packs? The "completion" of the Axis minors? Why not just update Partisan... since they're going to the new map style, just stick the maps and the new counters in a v2 box (like they're doing with BVv3), and viola, the "core" is complete!

Most of all, without at the RB and BV being available AT THE VERY LEAST, AoO is only a nice new toy for current ASL players. It is of no use to a "new" buyer because they can't play the darn game without taking extreme measures (i.e. eBay) to acquire the other necessary components.

It's this simple... until MMP has the RB and BV in stock, NOTHING else they do matters. Would it be nice if they complete AoO eventually? Yup! Is it at all important in the grand scheme of the hobby. Not a bit.

Darrell
 
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da priest said:
All the HASLs(6-8 depending on what you count)
All the DASLs(2)
Para
Partisan
The Last Hurrah

plus all the "upcoming" stuff...
I think Last Hurrah would be considered "core" at least until in a near future Doomed Batallions include the Allied Minor infantry and SW. :)

It´s suppose that Armies of Oblivion will include the Axis Minor infantry and SW so Partisan will not be "core" anymore.

Jesus
 
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Darrell,

A couple of your points needed a response:

"AOO is completely unnecessary"?? I guess that depends upon your frame of reference. Effectively, Partisans is being subsumed within AOO. As such, there is no need to 'update' Partisans.

"AOO is only a nice new toy"?? That "nice new toy" will likely provide the capital for MMP to print the RB and a BV3 reprint. There is little argument from the grogs that the RB and BV3 need to be in stock for the hobby to continue. However, those who have been patiently waiting are entitled to their due. Remember-- "dance with the girl which brung ya".
 

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Don Maddox said:
... but do you really think AoO merits all the fuss?
Nope.

Don Maddox said:
Why do you think that is? Is it simply because it's the last module of its kind for the system, or do you really think there is that much interest in these particular forces and the battles they played a part in?
I must admit I'm a bit of a completest (if that's a word) so I'd like the module eventually, mostly for the mounted boards.

Can I wait? Yep, got more than enough ASL stuff to keep me busy for years.

Cheers,
Jeff
 
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