How does CM-2 and Modules work?

[Sirocco]

It's no mystery. Once they have a base game everyone can live with, think about it. It should be simple to take a Normandy 1944 game and do an Italy 1944 game with the same basic units.

The question, though, was about what's taken the modules so long. You can make a case for patching taking attention away from Marines, but I find the very long timespan for British to be curious. The only other obvious factor is that apparently it isn't being handled in-house. But it has to be more than content for it to take such a long time, unless we're into CMC territory and people are working on it part time, which again would defeat the point of quick turn around modules.

 

[thewood]

I guess that is my point. Over 18 months past release we are one game and one module. My guess is CMN being towards the end of 09. That is at least two yeras past release of CMSF. We are coming up on 6 months since Marines. Right now, the new engine seems to have few real business advantages, and may have even slowed things down on the development front. Yeah, It took at least a year to really straighten out CMSF, but CMN from a coding standpoint will not be a walk in the park. You have a lot of issues to worked out still, along with at least a few more patches needed for CMSF. Other than some updated graphics, I'm not seeing the huge leap in accelerating development and release.

 

[Michael Dorosh]

Oh, this exactly why I said that once CM:N hits the shelves, kiss support to Shock Force good-bye. I mean, forget it. The modern version of Combat Mission will be dead in the water, unless they've got another coder on board, or some out-of-house talent. This Bundeswehr/Canada/Dutch module they keep talking about might delay Normandy and be a final sop to the modern crowd, but I think that would be it as far as modern Combat Mission goes, if they keep going on the current schedule.

But as I said, they may have some rabbits in the hat. CM:AK came out of nowhere.

 

[Sirocco]

One thing is for sure; if they keep up this snails pace we'll be onto CMx3 long before the series makes it to the Eastern Front.

 

[thewood]

More likeley CM3 will be Eastern Front. By the time they get done futzing around with all the things left out of CM2, it will, for all intents and purposes, be an engine rewrite.

 

[KG_Jag]

To bring CM x 2 to a near finished product for a game in a waterless and featureless terrain, has taken 1 1/2 years since its premature release. To accomplish just this, BF had to leave out much of what was in CM x 1.

I would not expect a basic "working" CMN [think CMSF in its last couple of versions] until Christmas 2009, at the earliest. Once they get to that point, they should be able to crank out '44 era, non-winter terrain games or modules every six to eight months.

 

[dalem]

To bring CM x 2 to a near finished product for a game in a waterless and featureless terrain, has taken 1 1/2 years since its premature release. To accomplish just this, BF had to leave out much of what was in CM x 1.

I would not expect a basic "working" CMN [think CMSF in its last couple of versions] until Christmas 2009, at the earliest. Once they get to that point, they should be able to crank out '44 era, non-winter terrain games or modules every six to eight months.

"...in a waterless and featureless terrain..."

And weatherless too.

thewood is more correct than he knows - CMN will be essentially CMx3, or at least CMx2.5, long before they do any East Front, if they do.

-dale

 

[Michael Dorosh]

"...in a waterless and featureless terrain..."

And weatherless too.

And no fortifications or engineering - barbed wire, roadblocks, foxholes...

 

[dalem]

And no fortifications or engineering - barbed wire, roadblocks, foxholes...

Wait - there are not even foxholes in CMSF? Really? Where do you put the Syrians?

-dale

 

[Michael Dorosh]

Wait - there are not even foxholes in CMSF? Really? Where do you put the Syrians?

-dale

Bodybags .

 

[Redwolf]

Supposedly there are foxholes in CM:SF, those that appear to the attacker after setup.

It's just that that no scenario designers seem to enable them (they give us trenches, so why bother?), that's why very few people have seem them in the wild.

 

[dalem]

Ahh, I see. Thanks.

-dale

 

[thewood]

"...in a waterless and featureless terrain..."

And weatherless too.

thewood is more correct than he knows - CMN will be essentially CMx3, or at least CMx2.5, long before they do any East Front, if they do.

-dale

I always know how correct I am.

 

[shell-shocked]

Judging from what Steve has said in the past, I believe each new unit requires some new code. And of course tweaking of the magic numbers.

I guess they have to code separately what each crew member can do in a specific vehicle, what they are likely do in given situations, and so forth. So it's not as well thought of system for adding new content as one might believe. Adding and monkey testing new stuff takes ages.

 

[Michael Dorosh]

Judging from what Steve has said in the past, I believe each new unit requires some new code. And of course tweaking of the magic numbers.

I guess they have to code separately what each crew member can do in a specific vehicle, what they are likely do in given situations, and so forth. So it's not as well thought of system for adding new content as one might believe. Adding and monkey testing new stuff takes ages.

I would hope each new game introduces something new, though, besides just skins and unit stats. MARINES was a crashing bore. I want to see new "rules" or terrain or buildings- something exciting about the game beyond just bug fixes that are provided via free patch anyway - each time they are extracting money from the wallet.

 

[dalem]

each time they are extracting money from the wallet.

Not mine. I'm letting you guys do all the alpha testing for me.

-dale

 

[Geordie]

I would hope each new game introduces something new, though, besides just skins and unit stats. MARINES was a crashing bore. I want to see new "rules" or terrain or buildings- something exciting about the game beyond just bug fixes that are provided via free patch anyway - each time they are extracting money from the wallet.

See this is exactly my point, each new Module is accompanied by a new patch that seems to offer so much more than it really does as you dont have to buy the module and still get the patch. But everyone says, hey 1.11 with the marines is much better. Actually 1.11 is much better, the marines is just 5 new vehicles and a bigger Inf squad.

I'm expecting to see the same with the brits, a new patch rides over the top of the Module and guys will say, the brits is awesome. Until some good scenarios are designed for them it wont be any better than anything we have now, after all a Challenger isnt much different from an Abrams, nor is a UK squad much from a US Army one.

What would be a good surprise though is an Afgan add-on, one that gives us the taliban. Then we could have more Stan scenarios, which would also make a Euro/Canadian Module much more interesting indeed.

Thats how to do Modules in my book, offer something irresistible to the player. Just admit Syria gets a bit sucky and add in anything that makes the game more interesting.

 

[thewood]

I really don't like how each module will continue to pile on western forces with no "red" forces added. I was hoping since its all make believe anyway, BFC could see to putting in and bulking up the red units, even if not in the Syrian OOB.

 

[Michael Dorosh]

See this is exactly my point, each new Module is accompanied by a new patch that seems to offer so much more than it really does as you dont have to buy the module and still get the patch. But everyone says, hey 1.11 with the marines is much better. Actually 1.11 is much better, the marines is just 5 new vehicles and a bigger Inf squad.

I'm expecting to see the same with the brits, a new patch rides over the top of the Module and guys will say, the brits is awesome. Until some good scenarios are designed for them it wont be any better than anything we have now, after all a Challenger isnt much different from an Abrams, nor is a UK squad much from a US Army one.

What would be a good surprise though is an Afgan add-on, one that gives us the taliban. Then we could have more Stan scenarios, which would also make a Euro/Canadian Module much more interesting indeed.

Thats how to do Modules in my book, offer something irresistible to the player. Just admit Syria gets a bit sucky and add in anything that makes the game more interesting.

Your example only makes sense if your Taliban tribesmen/Afghanistan terrain had some unique new features - Canadian sniper units with colossal range , new map features such as, say, bridges, or say engineers with the ability to defuze IEDs. Maybe some new terrain types like poppy fields or a new weather type that was common in Afghanistan - say a sandstorm or snow storm or a tunnel complex. Something that would be more than just Syrian irregulars in different clothes fighting US Marines dressed up with maple leaf flags on their shoulders.

 

[Geordie]

Your example only makes sense if your Taliban tribesmen/Afghanistan terrain had some unique new features - Canadian sniper units with colossal range , new map features such as, say, bridges, or say engineers with the ability to defuze IEDs. Maybe some new terrain types like poppy fields or a new weather type that was common in Afghanistan - say a sandstorm or snow storm or a tunnel complex. Something that would be more than just Syrian irregulars in different clothes fighting US Marines dressed up with maple leaf flags on their shoulders.

Exactly right except Afghanistan is much much more an Infantry fight. Thats where I think Bf are missing the boat. Just give us some stuff thats relevant to other theatres instead of just more stuff to beat up the Syrians with. Just take the leap into any units or equipment that will make Red forces more interesting, even down to including Russian forces deploying.