Honoring their sacrifices

Brian W

Elder Member
Joined
Jan 29, 2003
Messages
7,146
Reaction score
1,035
Location
USA
Country
llUnited States
Because thoughts and prayers don't go as far as they used to . . .

8540
 

Paul M. Weir

Forum Guru
Staff member
Moderator
Joined
Apr 3, 2004
Messages
8,068
Reaction score
2,914
Location
Dublin
First name
Paul
Country
llIreland
Is it my imagination, but has the US school shooting season been extended each year?

I looked up school shootings in Wiki. The entries for Europe has number 30 since 1913, the US entries number 95 from just 2015-present alone! I will grant that there are likely some differences in reporting and not all resulted in fatalities, but the difference in magnitude (30 in more than 100 years vs 95 in less than 5 years) is utterly astounding. The Republic of Ireland has about 1% of the population of the US, so going on US statistics we should have had a shooting every 5 years. I don't remember any in my lifetime, never mind a Columbine scale massacre.

I suppose there are a few very faint glimmers of hope. The gun lobby firm (NRA) is running out of money, their leadership has fragmented over financial corruption and self dealing and some are caught up with the Maria Butina case. The gun restriction movement has finally got up some head of steam. It would be ironic that after all the paranoia about Obama and his Acorn Army seizing everyone's guns and putting gun owners in FEMA camps, that it would be the Spanky years which would result in tighter gun laws.

A 2018 Journal of the American Medical Association study estimated about 250k gun deaths worldwide. For 2016 there were about 25k suicide and 15k homicide for a total of 40k for the US alone. That's something like 1/6 of gun deaths for 1/23 of the population, quite amazing in that in many parts of the world there open armed conflicts, yet the US is at "peace". I can't help feeling the US is a very mentally sick puppy.
 

DWPetros

Senior Member
Joined
Sep 27, 2016
Messages
140
Reaction score
331
Country
llUnited States
Our current gun-saturated country is the definition of national mental illness. It's also common for mentally ill people to not recognize their mental illness.

I only wish that Obama and his UN sponsored, black helicopter riding government agents had confiscated their AR-15's.
 

Paul M. Weir

Forum Guru
Staff member
Moderator
Joined
Apr 3, 2004
Messages
8,068
Reaction score
2,914
Location
Dublin
First name
Paul
Country
llIreland
Yesterday, the day I posted #2 there was a pair of school shooters in a Colorado school. Jeeez! Sick fucking nation.

Don't get me wrong, any country will have mad dogs, there was the Norwegian Nazi a few yeas ago, the New Zealand mosque shooter, etc, etc, but the US has a fetish for such crap.

The whole late 20th Century war in Northern Ireland cost ~3.5k deaths, but that is less than 3 month's worth of US gun homicides or little over a month's worth of total US gun deaths.
 

Paul M. Weir

Forum Guru
Staff member
Moderator
Joined
Apr 3, 2004
Messages
8,068
Reaction score
2,914
Location
Dublin
First name
Paul
Country
llIreland
I think the proliferation of gun ownership is a big contributing factor.
You don't say!

My previous post got me thinking about the NI war, that was roughly 1968-1998 or 30 years with about 3.5k deaths. The population of NI is now 1.8m+, growing slowly, so I will take 1.7m as an average during wartime, so about 50m people-years. The death rate works out about 70 per million-people years (pmpy). The US had a population of about 325m in 2016 with gun homicides of 15k and gun suicides of 25k. That works out at 46 pmpy (homicides) and 76 pmpy (suicides) for a total of 123 pmpy.

While the above figures are very rough and ready, the US gun deaths are nearly twice the death rate of a Western state undergoing a guerilla war. To put it in a more US perspective, the whole NI campaign had just a bit more than the toll of 9/11. The US is suffering a 9/11 each month (total gun deaths) or a 9/11 every 10 weeks (homicide only gun deaths). If that is not the definition of a national emergency, I don't know what is.

I suppose we are becoming inured to shooting reports, but when you go and analyse the rates and figures, it becomes what it is, utterly horrific.
 

Brian W

Elder Member
Joined
Jan 29, 2003
Messages
7,146
Reaction score
1,035
Location
USA
Country
llUnited States
If that is not the definition of a national emergency, I don't know what is.
Trump declared a national emergency because Congress didn't fund building a wall to stop the Mexican Golden Horde at our borders. Because Freedum!

To illustrate how bad it is, re-read the picture above and imagine that that very sentiment has been posted on dozens of gun chat rooms around the USA. "Dead innocents are the price we pay for our rights, just the price of being free." Because that sentiment is expressed everywhere gun nuts gather.
 

NUTTERNAME

Member
Joined
Jan 3, 2010
Messages
1,942
Reaction score
45
Location
N
Country
llVietnam
You twots know no bounds.

The two criminals stole handguns, not AR-15s, and committed the crime. Two mentally ill people in my opinion. Confused, childish, impudent anti-social losers (like most people that post here), that just stole from good people. They took a life of a good person with a future. The guns didn't do it, the sick self-possessed criminals did it.

At least the kids at the school rejected the political shits that tried to use the tragedy for their own political ends. Unlike youl ols losers, they have some class.

https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/skbaer/stem-school-shooting-students-change-guns

The OP couldn't give a fuck about the kids in that school. Read their names in the link. I live about 3 miles from there.
 

NUTTERNAME

Member
Joined
Jan 3, 2010
Messages
1,942
Reaction score
45
Location
N
Country
llVietnam
Is it my imagination, but has the US school shooting season been extended each year?

I looked up school shootings in Wiki. The entries for Europe has number 30 since 1913, the US entries number 95 from just 2015-present alone! I will grant that there are likely some differences in reporting and not all resulted in fatalities, but the difference in magnitude (30 in more than 100 years vs 95 in less than 5 years) is utterly astounding. The Republic of Ireland has about 1% of the population of the US, so going on US statistics we should have had a shooting every 5 years. I don't remember any in my lifetime, never mind a Columbine scale massacre.

I suppose there are a few very faint glimmers of hope. The gun lobby firm (NRA) is running out of money, their leadership has fragmented over financial corruption and self dealing and some are caught up with the Maria Butina case. The gun restriction movement has finally got up some head of steam. It would be ironic that after all the paranoia about Obama and his Acorn Army seizing everyone's guns and putting gun owners in FEMA camps, that it would be the Spanky years which would result in tighter gun laws.

A 2018 Journal of the American Medical Association study estimated about 250k gun deaths worldwide. For 2016 there were about 25k suicide and 15k homicide for a total of 40k for the US alone. That's something like 1/6 of gun deaths for 1/23 of the population, quite amazing in that in many parts of the world there open armed conflicts, yet the US is at "peace". I can't help feeling the US is a very mentally sick puppy.

A dopey Irishman using Wiki.... He should run for King of Ireland...or whatever the drunk in charge of that God forsaken place is called...

The cowardly and lazy (and apparently stupid) Irish use slow-suicide, namely cancer and heart disease from drinking and eating and smoking, and sitting around pontificating, to kill themselves off (and end their mental illnesses).

https://www.joe.ie/news/irelands-leading-causes-death-revealed-646264

I would say the chances of being killed in a school shooting are far down the the average on a fatalities percentage. I would say the percentage of school shooters being of mentally ill people as very high.

The laughable use of 'wurld-wide goon detts' (my attempt at Irish speech impediment), is a new left-wing knee-jerk data splooge. If anything, suicide in the US by guns, is greater than other lumped-data. Suicide is a mental health issue.

Hopefully, this doesn't stress the feeble-minded that post here with actual facts.

https://www.economist.com/graphic-detail/2018/08/30/gun-violence-has-killed-65m-people-worldwide-since-1990

In 2016, the overall rate of death by firearms in the United States was 11.8 per 100,000 people — the same as for death by motor vehicles — with suicides accounting for roughly two out of every three gun deaths.
 
Last edited:

MrP

Senior Member
Joined
Feb 17, 2003
Messages
4,888
Reaction score
482
Location
Woof? Bark? Whine?
Country
llNew Zealand
Which is 5-10 times that of every other developed country in the world. And your road death rates are 2-5 times greater than that of every other developed country in the world. Sort your shit out America.
In 2016, the overall rate of death by firearms in the United States was 11.8 per 100,000 people — the same as for death by motor vehicles — with suicides accounting for roughly two out of every three gun deaths.
 

Paul M. Weir

Forum Guru
Staff member
Moderator
Joined
Apr 3, 2004
Messages
8,068
Reaction score
2,914
Location
Dublin
First name
Paul
Country
llIreland
Another way to look at things is Life Expectancy. First the World Health Organisation, 2015.

For both sexes the US is 31st at 79.3 years with Ireland at 19th and 81.4 years. The UK, our closest neighbour in many respects, not just geographical, is 20th at 81.2 years. The closest to the US geographically and culturally is Canada at 12th and 82.2 years.

The US Life Expectancy for both sexes is 2.9 years less than Canada and 2.1 and 1.9 years less than Ireland and the UK respectively.

For males, who are more likely to be involved in violent or risky incidents or lifestyles/professions:

Canada: 8th, 80.2 years
Ireland & UK tie at: 16th, 79.4 years
USA: 32nd, 76.9 years (tied with Cuba and Maldives for 32nd)

The US male Life Expectancy is 3.3 years less than Canada and 2.5 years less than Ireland and the UK.

So just in case the WHO is a pinko faggot bunch of liars, lets use the CIA's figures for 2017, both sexes, then males:

Canada: 17th, 81.9 years, 79.3 years for all, male only
Ireland: 32nd, 80.9 years, 78.6 years
UK: 35th, 80.8 years, 78.6 years
USA: 43rd, 80.0 years, 77.7

OECD figures, 2016:

Canada: 13th, 81.9 years, 79.8 years for all, male only
Ireland: 14th, 81.8 years, 79.9 years
UK: 22nd, 81.2 years, 79.4 years
USA: 28th, 78.6 years, 76.1 years

The OECD only covers the 36 OECD members, basically the "Western" type nations and the US is in the bottom quarter of that group, Canada and Ireland being in the 2nd quarter.

So no matter whose figures you use, you die 2-3 years earlier in the USA than Canada, Ireland and UK.

 

Sparafucil3

Elder Member
Staff member
Moderator
Joined
Oct 7, 2004
Messages
9,079
Reaction score
1,670
Location
USA
First name
Jim
Country
llUnited States
So no matter whose figures you use, you die 2-3 years earlier in the USA than Canada, Ireland and UK.
Lies, damn lies, and statistics. The numbers are the numbers and there is no disputing them, but taken completely out of context. They don't describe the American condition. They don't describe the American story. There are a lot of things which drive those numbers down here. Of course, I would be happy to close ourselves off from the world and do what most other nations do and look our for our own people and our own good. I honestly believe it is high time we step aside and allow an enlightened Europe take the lead. -- jim
 

Martin Mayers

Elder Member
Joined
Jul 29, 2008
Messages
4,113
Reaction score
1,022
Location
The Gulag
First name
Gulagwanker
Country
llRussia
Lies, damn lies, and statistics. The numbers are the numbers and there is no disputing them, but taken completely out of context. They don't describe the American condition. They don't describe the American story. There are a lot of things which drive those numbers down here. Of course, I would be happy to close ourselves off from the world and do what most other nations do and look our for our own people and our own good. I honestly believe it is high time we step aside and allow an enlightened Europe take the lead. -- jim
Very fanciful stuff. The USA has never done anything out of the kindness of it's own heart. It does so, and historically has done so, in it's own national interest. Always. Without exception.

Doesn't make you bad. And it doesn't mean that certain countries shouldn't be (more) grateful. But if you're trying to sell us the idea of an altruistic nation, jumping to everyone's assistance, at much cost to self, then you're missing a significant part of the story.
 

Sparafucil3

Elder Member
Staff member
Moderator
Joined
Oct 7, 2004
Messages
9,079
Reaction score
1,670
Location
USA
First name
Jim
Country
llUnited States
Doesn't make you bad. And it doesn't mean that certain countries shouldn't be (more) grateful. But if you're trying to sell us the idea of an altruistic nation, jumping to everyone's assistance, at much cost to self, then you're missing a significant part of the story.
I am not selling altruism, just making a statement. If we don't do it, someone else will have to or not. Let someone else spend blood and treasure to keep the world safe. -- jim
 

Sand Bar Bill

Senior Member
Joined
Jul 30, 2006
Messages
600
Reaction score
428
Location
Putin's backyard
Country
llUnited States
School attacks are both shocking and statistically insignificant. I compare them to pit bulls, of which I own several.
 

Martin Mayers

Elder Member
Joined
Jul 29, 2008
Messages
4,113
Reaction score
1,022
Location
The Gulag
First name
Gulagwanker
Country
llRussia
I am not selling altruism, just making a statement. If we don't do it, someone else will have to or not. Let someone else spend blood and treasure to keep the world safe. -- jim
Been there...it's how Empires are lost and won. I don't think America is quite ready to give yours up just yet.
 

Paul M. Weir

Forum Guru
Staff member
Moderator
Joined
Apr 3, 2004
Messages
8,068
Reaction score
2,914
Location
Dublin
First name
Paul
Country
llIreland
And we're the worse off for it. One way it's reflected: longevity. -- jim
That I have to agree with. There are some fights that are justified, Iraq 1 and Afghanistan to a lesser degree, others seem to be a manifestation of national insecurity or being an international control freak. Pick your fights, ones that you have a chance to finish and win. Do it too often and a country becomes the problem not the solution. “He who defends everything, defends nothing.”, Frederick the Great

That's not a problem unique to the US, it's just that the US is currently the international top dog. If the Chinese pursue a similar policy in the future then they too will suffer.

The true strength of a nation is less with its armed forces and more with its greatest resource; its people. Underfunding education, healthcare and infrastructure is like spending your bank account on candy as opposed to investing in a house or business.
 
Top