HOB during movement

Will Fleming

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Say a squad uses 2MF to place a DC using Assault movement.

First shot on the squad on the first MF breaks the squad. Second shot is fired with the benefit of -1 FFNAM since the squad is no longer using Assault movement. Squad shot on 2nd MF battle hardens to an unbroken unit.

If it went berserk, it would start a charge.

In this case, can the squad continue moving?

If so, is it still assault moving or can it spend 2 MF doing other things and even do a late CX?

Can he try to place the DC again for 2MF?
 

EagleIV

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I would say that the unit can continue moving, but they have declared AM and are under the AM restrictions so late CX is out, but they could place the DC for 1MF somewhere else.
 

Eagle4ty

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I think his MPh was finished when he broke / no more MF for him even if now Berserk.
Its MPh is not complete until the player moves another unit (A4.2). A4.1 does indicate that if broken a unit may no longer move, but since its MPh has not been competed and it became Berserk (and thus no longer broken) predicated upon defensive fire precipitated by a MF expenditure, I believe he has the additional MF available minus the MF spent prior to becoming berserk and may continue moving as Berserk (A15.431) even if he had declared Assault Movent to initiate his movement. As for placing a DC that would be a no-no as per A15.431 as it must be thrown if used.
 

Pacman Ghost

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The way the question is phrased is a little unclear, but what happened is that the squad broke as it was attempting to place a DC (using Assault Movement), got shot at again on its second MF and Battle Hardened. We weren't sure if the unit's MPh ended when it broke, or if it could continue moving when it ralied. Will simply brought up going Berserk as an example of a unit breaking, and then subsequently rallying and continuing to move. But even if you say that it can keep moving, the question arises of whether it is still Assault Moving. The argument was that it stopped Assault Moving when it broke.

And if it's allowed to continue moving, can it then try to place the same DC again? If not, what actually happened was that the squad had two DC's, so can it then try to place the second one?
 
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Philippe D.

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Its MPh cannot end directly when it breaks since it can still be shortly subject to Defensive First Fire.

I tried to locate the rule that says the MPh of a unit that breaks ends, but didn't; all I found is A10.4 which only says it cannot move (except for routing), so its MPh ending would only be a consequence of it being unable to do anything. If this is the only thing that applies, I suppose it could possibly spend more MF if back to Good Order.
 

Eagle4ty

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The way the question is phrased is a little unclear, but what happened is that the squad broke as it was attempting to place a DC, got shot at again on its second MP and Battle Hardened. We weren't sure if the unit's MPh ended when it broke, or if it could continue moving when it ralied. Will simply brought up going Berserk as an example of a unit breaking, and then subsequently rallying and continuing to move. But even if you say that it can keep moving, the question arises of whether it is still Assault Moving. The argument was that it stopped Assault Moving when it broke.

The question of whether it can try to place the same DC again was a bit easier - the DC had been "used", so it seems uncontroversial that it can't re-use it, but what actually happened was that the squad had two DC's, so can it then try to place the second one?
I tend to agree with EAGLE IV that because he declared Assault Movement initially he would be limited from entering another location, using all of his non-Assault Moving MFs or declaring a Late CX (thus invalidating the Assault Movement) but that's a SWAG only.
 

Pacman Ghost

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I tend to agree with EAGLE IV that because he declared Assault Movement initially he would be limited from entering another location, using all of his non-Assault Moving MFs or declaring a Late CX (thus invalidating the Assault Movement) but that's a SWAG only.
A4.61 ASSAULT MOVEMENT: A unit using Assault Movement ... which breaks, or becomes berserk, due to Defensive First Fire is no longer considered using Assault Movement

So, we figured the broken guy doesn't suddenly start using Assault Movement again after he rallies. In this case, he wanted to place another DC, so the question of whether or not he can go to another Location didn't really matter, it was whether or not he can spend more MF.
 

EagleIV

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I don't see any reason they can't continue moving (or at least spending MF), but I just checked the Chapter A chart and it says you can only place 1 DC/turn. Note A doesn't apply and I would expect that placing the same DC again counts as using the SW a second time.
 

bluedogpete

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I've been following the discussions earlier and the logic that appears to have reached some sort of concensus.
Namely that movement can continue and MF are restored. (CMIIW)

So I consulted my nice new shiny eASLRB:

A10.4 BROKEN UNITS: "...Broken units may neither attack in any way nor move except to rout during the RtPh or withdraw from CC."

This appears to state that at the point of 'Breaking' movement ends. All MF are expended (for that unit).

So the question arises, is the 'Battle Hardened' (or other similarly achieved effect) merely a change in strucure, or a complete restoration of MF/Status/DC ability? The former applies the rules in the order they take place (with effects applying immediately), and the latter appears quite a generous gain from a single rally roll.

A unit that breaks suffers a severe loss of control. Would a 'Battle Hardening' suddenly wipe out/ignore this and return everyone to their pre-broken status? As if nothing happened?
 

Vinnie

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You can only place one DC a turn and the attempt to place such failed when you broke but it was still made.
I believe you can still continue to move but may move no further than the single location.

In hex A1 try and place into A2 and break then battle harden. You can continue to move but only to A0 or B1 etc.
 

Eagle4ty

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I've been following the discussions earlier and the logic that appears to have reached some sort of concensus.
Namely that movement can continue and MF are restored. (CMIIW)

So I consulted my nice new shiny eASLRB:

A10.4 BROKEN UNITS: "...Broken units may neither attack in any way nor move except to rout during the RtPh or withdraw from CC."

This appears to state that at the point of 'Breaking' movement ends. All MF are expended (for that unit).

So the question arises, is the 'Battle Hardened' (or other similarly achieved effect) merely a change in strucure, or a complete restoration of MF/Status/DC ability? The former applies the rules in the order they take place (with effects applying immediately), and the latter appears quite a generous gain from a single rally roll.

A unit that breaks suffers a severe loss of control. Would a 'Battle Hardening' suddenly wipe out/ignore this and return everyone to their pre-broken status? As if nothing happened?
Yes, he is no longer broken! ASL for the most part is to conduct an action and data dump what went before it [EXC: MF/MP expenditures]. There are a few other items that require recall on the player's part (e.g. placement of a DC against and AFV) but for the most part one does not have to remember much of what has just transpired prior to the action at the moment. It's the whole premise of a tactical game and this one in particular.

Having reviewed this thread and the arguments provided as well as the rules noted, I have altered my initial assessment to be that once the unit had BH'ed all that has gone before it [EXC: MF expenditure] is out the window and the unit may continue to move and conduct activities to the extent of his remaining MF allotment, to include a late double time movement.
 
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