HIP and an Entrenchment Attempt.

Discussion in 'ASL Rules & Errata' started by sfcmikej, Dec 7, 2017.

  1. sfcmikej

    sfcmikej US Army Retired

    746
    Jul 4, 2013
    North Carolina
    A HIP squad with no enemy having a LOS attempts to entrench. How is this handled? Is it allowed? It is not movement so I don't see it as a HIP loss but if successful is the foxhole also HIP? If putting it on the board is required then obviously no one would attempt an entrenchment with a HIP guy.

    I couldn't find any guidance in the tome.

    Mike
     
  2. Eagle4ty

    Eagle4ty Active Member

    Nov 7, 2007
    Eau Claire, Wi
    I think it falls under "any other action" (NOTE C, A12.121 CONCEALMENT LOSS/GAIN TABLE). This is especially true since Entrenching (B27.11) is a PFPh action of which a HIP unit couldn't engage in and retain its HIP status.
     
  3. jrv

    jrv Vare, legiones redde!

    May 25, 2005
    Teutoburger Wald
    Note C only applies for Infantry with an enemy unit < 16 hexes away with LOS. The OP said that no enemy unit had LOS. HIP for the unit is retained. The foxhole would be put above the unit per B27.11, i.e. it would not be HIP. Even if it were HIP, in most circumstances it would be put out on board in most cases per case H when an enemy gained LOS.

    JR
     
  4. Eagle4ty

    Eagle4ty Active Member

    Nov 7, 2007
    Eau Claire, Wi
    OK, miss applied Note C. I agree that that if no LOS can be drawn to the HIP unit during that player turn, the unit would remain HIP as well as any entrenchment (Note F) as the chart takes precedence over the body of the rules and I do not see where it has to be placed on board known as it would be possible to make a side record of the placement and follow normal concealment rules as the entrenching unit had never lost its HIP status.

    However, since the unit is marked with a TI counter and the task it is engaged in is considered to be throughout the player turn (A4.8), should a valid LOS be subsequently determined (say an enemy unit successfully Withdrew from CC/Melee, or an unbroken Leader routed with a broken unit, and established a LOS to the Location), the entrenchment as well as the HIP unit would lose HIP/Concealment immediately if within 16 hexes (Notes C & H appropriately); Or if at ranges of 17+ the entrenchment would lose HIP status if in not in concealment terrain.
     
  5. sfcmikej

    sfcmikej US Army Retired

    746
    Jul 4, 2013
    North Carolina
    In our case we were playing PTO. The unit in question was surrounded by jungle hexes and the enemy was still a turn or two away so no LOS was going to happen. We played it as the foxhole went on HIP and treated the TI similarly to an HIP OBA observer. You don't need to put a prep fire counter on your HIP observer. Oh yea VASL allows you to HIP the TI counter. This has to be a fairly isolated incident but without finding anything definitive in the rules I thought I would ask. Thanks for the input.

    Mike
     
  6. Jeff Sewall

    Jeff Sewall Active Member

    384
    Oct 9, 2004
    Pittsburgh
    I agree that A12.32 only mentions movement as being prohibited for HIP units, but the following Q&A implies that HIP units may not perform any action, although it does not address the issue directly.

    A12.14 & A12.3
    May a hidden unit not in enemy LOS voluntarily sacrifice its hidden status, and become concealed in order to perform some action (e.g., Deploy during the RPh, Entrench during the PFPh, Place SMOKE during the MPh, voluntarily break a MMC in order to rout with a still concealed/hidden leader, transfer a weapon during the APh, etc.), or to undertake no activity at all during that phase? Or is the unit “totally discovered” the moment it sacrifices its hidden status under these circumstances? May a hidden unit in enemy LOS voluntarily sacrifice its hidden status, and become concealed in order to perform a non-concealment loss activity, or no activity at all during that phase? Or is the unit “totally discovered” the moment it sacrifices its hidden status under these circumstances? A. The former in both cases.
     

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