hill

ecz

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#1
board 47:
Units in H2 and G3 are in level one (the white dot is on level one) . what about F3?

I would consider it in level 1 as the others. So the los from H2 to E4 is clear

correct?
 

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jrv

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#3
The original, non-aslsk-style board has the hill as level 2. The ASLSK-style board (and the vasl boards, which used the aslsk-style board as base) *looks* like it is level one. The rules for non-inherent terrain in a hex [B10.1] say that the "terrain (e.g., grain, brush, woods, building) is at the higher level throughout the entire depiction of the terrain in question for LOS purposes (but the actual Crest Line is always used for movement purposes), even if it appears to be rising from the lower level portion of the hill hex. ... For aesthetic purposes, many hexes contain colors representing more than one elevation, but units therein are always considered at the elevation level containing the hex center dot." This means that if you play B10.1 pure, the grain is at the higher level (level 2), and the hex center dot (in the grain) is at level 2 (despite appearing to rise from level one).

This would be fairly conclusive (although the bit about "the actual Crest Line is always used for movement purposes" baffles me), unless you use footnote 3A. Footnote 3A suggests you try to guess where the crest line runs under another terrain type (grain, brush, woods, building). If you are an ardent footnote-three-A-er and are using the ASLSK-style board (or VASL), then the hex is level one. If you follow B10.1 and/or have an old-style board, it is level two.

Note that this applies to all three hexes, F3, G3 and H2. Vasl has done further disservice when it removed the grain by not applying B10.1 to the artwork.

edit: the problems with G3 & H2 on the aslsk-style board (hex center being under grain) do not apply to F3, as there is no grain in F3. As the crest line goes through the hex center dot, it cannot be determined by rule what level the hex is.

JR
 
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jrv

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#6
For those with only the aslsk-style board and/or vasl, this is a scan of the original board 47. The levels intended are clearer on it:

original board 47 hill.jpg

JR
 

ecz

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#7
thanks. It was a good idea to ask despite the fact the VASL seems clear.
 

jrv

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#8
thanks. It was a good idea to ask despite the fact the VASL seems clear.
Even using the ASLSK boards as a basis the vasl board does not apply B10.1 correctly. This is a quick conversion of the original board 47 using B10.1 showing G3 as it should be depicted with grain out of season. Even on the aslsk-style board, the grain should be at the *upper* level, and should be shown in the upper color when grain is out of season. Vasl is correct only if you use footnote 3A.

original board 47 hill b10.1 applied.jpg

JR
 

Larry

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#9
If playing on an SK board, H2 and G3 are at level 1 but F3 is at level 2. At least part of the dot is on level 2. LOS from H2 to E4 is clear because no level 2 art extends to both sides of the string.

Perhaps MMP will issue a sticky errata for the board?
 

jrv

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#10
If playing on an SK board, H2 and G3 are at level 1 but F3 is at level 2.
They are at level 1 only if you play footnote 3A. Per B10.1 as currently written, grain (and all non-inherent terrain) is at the *upper* level even if it seems to be rising from the lower level.

JR
 

Eagle4ty

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#11
To be absolutely correct per B.1, you must first determine the dominant terrain featured in the hex. To This end you must compute the volume of the areas encompassed by Level 0, 1 & 2 contained within the hex and make a determination. It is quite possible that one or more hexes in question may indeed be Level 0 hexes.
 

klasmalmstrom

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#12
To be absolutely correct per B.1, you must first determine the dominant terrain featured in the hex. To This end you must compute the volume of the areas encompassed by Level 0, 1 & 2 contained within the hex and make a determination. It is quite possible that one or more hexes in question may indeed be Level 0 hexes.
However, that does not matter when determining at what Level units in the hex are - as that is governed by B10.1:
"...For aesthetic purposes, many hexes contain colors representing more than one elevation, but units therein are always considered at the elevation level containing the hex center dot."

So going strictly by this, if one plays one the SK-style boards, unit are at Level 1. But as I said above (and in at least a couple of older threads) the SK-style baord 47 is drawn incorrectly. One should play as if those are Level 2 hexes instead.

If someone sends MMP a Q&A maybe they will draw up an overlay for download - like they did for that error on board 42 (in Action Pack #3, IIRC).
 

Eagle4ty

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#13
However, that does not matter when determining at what Level units in the hex are - as that is governed by B10.1:
"...For aesthetic purposes, many hexes contain colors representing more than one elevation, but units therein are always considered at the elevation level containing the hex center dot."

So going strictly by this, if one plays one the SK-style boards, unit are at Level 1. But as I said above (and in at least a couple of older threads) the SK-style baord 47 is drawn incorrectly. One should play as if those are Level 2 hexes instead.

If someone sends MMP a Q&A maybe they will draw up an overlay for download - like they did for that error on board 42 (in Action Pack #3, IIRC).
Damn, you're good! (caught it after my post but figured, what the hey!):D
 

Philippe D.

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#15
Isn't there also a sentence like "common sense must prevail"?

I mean, it's probably the only place in the whole rulebook where something like that is spelled out. Gotta apply it!
 

bprobst

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#16
But as I said above (and in at least a couple of older threads) the SK-style baord 47 is drawn incorrectly. One should play as if those are Level 2 hexes instead.

If someone sends MMP a Q&A maybe they will draw up an overlay for download - like they did for that error on board 42 (in Action Pack #3, IIRC).
So this is an error known and acknowledged as an error by MMP, yes? Regardless of the availability of any "corrective overlays", surely this is worth an official line of errata? Why does somebody have to send a Q&A before MMP will take any action? Why can't the "someone" be you, Klas?
 

klasmalmstrom

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#17
So this is an error known and acknowledged as an error by MMP, yes?
I don't know if MMP is aware of this particular error.


Regardless of the availability of any "corrective overlays", surely this is worth an official line of errata? Why does somebody have to send a Q&A before MMP will take any action? Why can't the "someone" be you, Klas?
I can certainly mention it to MMP.
 

Philippe D.

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#19
Come on, most of us are quite content to play with the results of your work - you don't have to apologize for it, and if there's the occasional mistake, well, it just shows how few of them there are.
 

von Marwitz

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#20
My apologies for the VASL version.
Wrong direction.

My thanks for your VASL version. And all the work you and others have put into VASL. The impact can hardly be overstated.

A recent poll just has revealed that apparently more that 40% (of a sample of currently 84) spend the bulk of their playing time using VASL. So as it stands, namely you and the other code gnomes, map elves, and counter smiths rank among the prime enablers for the ASL hobby as it exists these years.

So it is more that gratitude and appreciation is in order towards you rather than apologies by you.

von Marwitz