Hero Firegroup Question

[plpalmerdvm]

A question arose in a friendly game last night that the two of us could not reconcile---both felt their position was correct. It involves a 2-hex firegroup involving a hero. Look at the following example:
View attachment 1144 Now suppose the Germans want to form a firegroup of K4/K5 to shoot at M5. What is the attack? Obviously it is 6 FP, but what is the DRM, +1 or +2? The following rules appear to apply:

A7.531 "A leader may use his leadership DRM to modify the IFT DR of any one attacking unit or FG per Player Turn, provided all firing units of the FG are in the same Location. A leadership DRM may be employed with a multihex/Location FG only if a leader directing that attack is present in every Location." This seems clear enough, but

A15.24 . . . "This (heroic) DRM is cumulative with that of any applicable leadership DRM/additional heroes present in the same attack. Unlike a leader, a hero's IFT DRM is not contingent on being in the same Location of all other members of the FG or in combination with another unit."
So this suggests the the heroic DRM is added to ANY applicable leadership DRM.

So, what does/would Perry say?!

 

[Jazz]

Heroic DRM applies no matter how many hexes/locations involved in the FG.

Heroic DRM is not Leadership DRM.

Note that if the hero (or any other component in the FG) is in a hex/location that does not contain a leader of the required leadership rating, then the heroic DRM applies but not the Leadership DRM.

From Klas' compiled Q&A (available at http://www.klasm.com/ASL/ErrataQA/ErrataQA.html):

A7.531 & A15.24 If a squad is ADJACENT to a
friendly hero and those two units fire as a FG,
may a Good Order leader stacked with the squad
direct the attack?
A. No – because the hero is not in the same
Location as the leader. [An93b; An96; Mw]

 

[PugRoyale]

This seems pretty clear cut as a 6 +2 to me. To receive a leadership modifier in a multihex FG you have to have the same or better modifier in each hex. You would receive the heroic DRM because he is using his FP at normal range.

 

[Jazz]

This seems pretty clear cut as a 6 +2 to me. To receive a leadership modifier in a multihex FG you have to have the same or better modifier in each hex. You would receive the heroic DRM because he is using his FP at normal range.

Yeah, i guess I left that out didn't I? Agreed, it is a 6+2 attack.

 

[von Marwitz]

You would receive the heroic DRM because he is using his FP at normal range.

This is pretty important and I have seen this overlooked more than once.
The hero's normal range is only 4 hexes, so the hero does not do much good if you have that killer-stack of a couple of HMGs that want to blaze away at a longer range.
Unless, that is, if you have a Hero man a SW. In that case, he could apply his Heroic DRM out to the normal range of that SW - which in many cases would be cancelled out again because most SWs need two SMC to be Fully Manned.
That is, where an ATR is just perfect: Normal Range of 12, which allows a hero firing it nicely to have his Heroic -1 DRM to reach out to 12 hexes instead of 4, which matches up nicely with the range of many MMGs or HMGs he might be fire-grouping with.

von Marwitz

 

[Philippe D.]

Or, team up the Hero to fully man the HMG: either with another Hero (-2DRM to the full range of a HMG, compatible with a Leadership DRM, this should get you some Smoker attention), or with this lousy leader you don't know what to do with.

 

[jrv]

The best tactic is thirty-four heroes manning seventeen German HMGs for 119 FP down 34. That's what I always use.

JR

 

[mgmasl]

I will create a SSR limiting ONE heroic DRM per attack

 

[clubby]

The best tactic is thirty-four heroes manning seventeen German HMGs for 119 FP down 34. That's what I always use.

JR

I try to make sure that every unit has an ATR so when I randomly generate a hero an ATR is available.

 

[Philippe D.]

The best tactic is thirty-four heroes manning seventeen German HMGs for 119 FP down 34. That's what I always use.

JR

Remember, Heroic DRMs work also on multi-hex FGs. So don't let the overstacking rules limit your ambitions - just fill this big building with thirty-four heroes and seventeen .50 HMGs (better than German HMGs) per location.

 

[jrv]

Remember, Heroic DRMs work also on multi-hex FGs. So don't let the overstacking rules limit your ambitions - just fill this big building with thirty-four heroes and seventeen .50 HMGs (better than German HMGs) per location.

The .50 cal has more firepower, it's true, but it has the two repair number and when dm it is 3PP. The German HMG has the three repair number and when dm it is 2PP, meaning that you don't have to rely on MMC to port it about. It's a bit about personal preference, so you might prefer the .50 cal. The .50 cal is certainly better if there is going to be armor about.

And I don't feel right if I don't stack them all. I feel like I'm abusing the rules.

JR

 

[jrv]

I try to make sure that every unit has an ATR so when I randomly generate a hero an ATR is available.

That is one problem with late-war OBs: they don't have any ATRs to give to heroes.

JR

 

[Ganjulama]

Can you have the Hero shoot a German LMG with 1/2 FP (and no ROF) and get the -1 DRM out to 8 hexes? This came up in a game I played this weekend.

 

[jrv]

Can you have the Hero shoot a German LMG with 1/2 FP (and no ROF) and get the -1 DRM out to 8 hexes? This came up in a game I played this weekend.

No. Per A9.12 a *leader* may use a MG at half FP. Per A15.23 a hero may use a *non-MG SW* as a leader, but a MG it may only use at full FP with -1 hero and +1 DRM canceling out.

JR

 

[Ganjulama]

No. Per A9.12 a *leader* may use a MG at half FP. Per A15.23 a hero may use a *non-MG SW* as a leader, but a MG it may only use at full FP with -1 hero and +1 DRM canceling out.

JR

Thanks JR, we did it right, we were just too lazy to look it up due to large scenario size and limited time.

 

[mgmasl]

But if heroic DRM is only at normal range firing a MG by a hero at long range will have a +1 added because no heroic DRM to cancelling out this one.