Here's Your Rifle. There's The Enemy.

[Tuomo]

Reading about the Spanish Blue Division and their experiences during the Russian winter of 1941. How the Russians were basically shoving men into the front lines with zero training (reminiscent of the scenes in that Jude Law Stalingrad movie where the Commissar is calling out to the conscripts as they land on the west side of the Volga, "When one man falls, the next one takes his rifle!" or some such).

How is this kind of thing reflected in ASL scenarios? Or was it just such a slaughter that it doesn't make for any kind of scenario one would "game"?

 

[bendizoid]

4-2-6

 

[Justiciar]

Possible options are....(this is a menu and not necessarily an all inclusive feast, but could be if you wanted it.)
Fail MC = CR
PIN = TI (means no advance fire and no advance too)
CC = suffer +1 / -1 in addition to any CX status
No self rally [exc crews and leaders]
No leadership creation

 

[Paul M. Weir]

NKVD squad with MMG and commissar that can only fire at friendly units?

 

[Michael Dorosh]

Reading about the Spanish Blue Division and their experiences during the Russian winter of 1941. How the Russians were basically shoving men into the front lines with zero training (reminiscent of the scenes in that Jude Law Stalingrad movie where the Commissar is calling out to the conscripts as they land on the west side of the Volga, "When one man falls, the next one takes his rifle!" or some such).

How is this kind of thing reflected in ASL scenarios? Or was it just such a slaughter that it doesn't make for any kind of scenario one would "game"?

I would recommend reading better books...even the Russians never actually sent men into combat unarmed.

Junior (and senior...) leadership was probably more an issue than weapons loadouts given the effects of the purges and the need for junior officers to be elevated quickly and in great numbers. Probably also some malaise left over from the Winter War.

To portray some of the chaos of untrained and poorly led troops even beyond the usual conscript units and high squad to leader ratio, you could incorporate ammunition shortage among the other suggestions above. Infantry platoon movement might be another. Command/control via the SASL rules yet another, getting you to a point that getting squads to do anything at all would seem like a victory.

 

[Michael Dorosh]

NKVD squad with MMG and commissar that can only fire at friendly units?

This was overstated in Enemy at the Gates, apparently, and applies more for penal units than regular line infantry. From WP (emphasis mine):

The film also overdramatizes the role of blocking detachments in the Red Army. Although there was Order No. 227 (Russian: Директива Ставки ВГК №227) that became the rallying cry of ("Not a step back!" (Russian: Ни шагу назад!, romanized: Ni shagu nazad!), machine gunners were not placed behind regular troops with orders to kill anyone who retreated. They were used only for penal troops. Detachments were used regularly to prevent withdrawal or desertion by regular troops. As per Order No. 227, each detachment would have between three and five barrier squads per 200 personnel. In the first three months, blocking detachments shot 1,000 penal troops and sent 24,993 to penal battalions. By October 1942, the idea of regular blocking detachments was quietly dropped; by October 1944, the units were officially disbanded. During the Battle of Stalingrad, the 62nd Army had the most arrests, and executions: 203 in all of which 49 were executed after battle, while 139 were sent to penal companies and battalions.

It was more common for the blocking detachments to arrest deserters rather than shoot them in the heat of combat. Low ELR could probably simulate this well, as unwilling soldiers melt away.

 

[RobZagnut]

How the Korean War module represents the Chinese units is the best.

- If they Prep Fire it is Area Fire. (move closer, don’t fire so far away.)

- 4-(1)-7 units. Only 4 FP when adjacent. No long range fire at 2 hexes away. Only double FP instead of TPBF when in the same hex.

- Infantry Platoon Movement.

 

[von Marwitz]

How is this kind of thing reflected in ASL scenarios? Or was it just such a slaughter that it doesn't make for any kind of scenario one would "game"?

I think there is one scenario that tries to reflect this callous disregard for their men by the Russians. I cannot remember the name of it, but roughly the situation is as follows:

(Extreme?) Winter. Germans on the defence with numerous MG. The Russians attack in four waves over OG against entrenched German, the first wave being Conscripts with no SW whatsoever and no leaders, the second wave a mix of Conscripts and 1st line Infantry with maybe an LMG or two, the third wave consisting of 1st line Infantry, some SW and some Leaders and the fourth wave consisting of Elite squads with good leadership and considerable SW support.

The basic idea seems to be to force the Germans to fire to avoid CC but risking higher chances of SW Malfunction due to the Extreme Winter conditions. Obviously, the first wave is "intended" to be shredded apart for some statistical survivors that will create some problems such as lowering the range of Subsequent First Fire shots due to the vincinity of those few survivors. Eventually, it will become harder for the Germans and/or involving higher risk to fend off the flood of Russians.

von Marwitz

 

[Vinnie]

Much of the waves of unarmed men narrative comes from propaganda both during and after the war.
The major errors of the Soviet army were strategic and on the supply side where the inherent misreporting of the Soviet system left units unsupplied and unsupported.

 

[Danno]

4-2-6 with an ELR of 1. the real question is if they need a low ammo restriction. One stripper clip of ammo was not much between two men.

 

[Eagle4ty]

Much of the waves of unarmed men narrative comes from propaganda both during and after the war.
The major errors of the Soviet army were strategic and on the supply side where the inherent misreporting of the Soviet system left units unsupplied and unsupported.

Also the use of uninspired tactics by usually junior officers, especially early in the war. Often with less trained troops and/or inexperienced officers, they would continue to press an attack over the same ground using the same tactical principals time and again in slavish obedience to orders to accomplish a mission. In fact this was not a problem endemic to only to the Russians as during the Battle Of The Bulge for instance, some German units acting more like an armed mob than a trained military force, were foolishly wasted in forlorn frontal assaults against well prepared defenses.

 

[Justiciar]

Morir en Rusia La Division Azul en La Batalla de Krasny Bor | PDF | Regimiento | Alemania nazi

Scribd is the world's largest social reading and publishing site.

www.scribd.com

 

[hayman]

4-2-6 with an ELR of 1.

Give 'em an ELR of 2. Most of them won't be going forward after their first break anyway.

 

[asloser]

You might want to check out Hakkaa Päälle scenario 163 Stopped Cold which depicts an early Russian/Finnish action where Russian leadership and troop quality were lacking.

 

[Honza]

Jackboot Woods from the third HOB SS pack.

 

[Tuomo]

4-2-6 with an ELR of 1

That's what blows my mind. German squads go through army training and they get 4 FP. Assuming the situation really did happen where people were handed rifles (or not) and pointed to the enemy lines, it just seems wrong to give them 4FP. Or any range. Or morale. Just seems like those situations don't fit the mold.

 

[R Hooks]

Better trained actually fired at shorter range then they could, untrained troops often fired even before the enemy was in maximum range.

 

[TopT]

Jackboot Woods from the third HOB SS pack.

Yep, that is the scenario with 5 waves of HW. The 6th wave is AFV's.

I almost set this up to play. Maybe someday.

 

[Eagle4ty]

Better trained actually fired at shorter range then they could, untrained troops often fired even before the enemy was in maximum range.

I can certainly attest to that! In 2004-05 I was an Army advisor to the newly forming Iraqi Army and had the following conversation with an Iraqi officer:
Iraqi LT: Sergeant, I need to be issued more ammo for my men.
Me: (knowing that only last week I had issued his platoon 15,000 rounds and that no major engagement had occurred in the area of operations in the last week and no range operations had been conducted) Why? Your people should have all the ammo they're required. What happened?
LT: They used it all up on patrol shooting at the trees.
Me: What trees? How many?
LT: All the trees.
Me: Why?
LT: The bad people may be hiding behind the trees.
Me: OK! (exasperated, but knowing they couldn't go out on patrol without ammo) I'll authorize another 10,000 rounds but tell your guys to only shoot at the suspicious looking trees!

Yes, actually happened and yes, I did follow up with an inspection to assure myself they had expended most of their previous load.

 

[Tuomo]

What's the Morale of trees?