Help with VC for J161

[sfcmikej]

Hey All,

I am never sure that I understand the "and/or" when it comes to victory conditions. J161 states:

Provided they have > 1 Mobile (D.7) AFV still in play and/or have exited > 1 AFV transporting riders, the British win immediately upon exiting > 9 Exit VP [EXC: Prisoners do not count] of non-crew Personnel off the south edge or off hex 6aI11

So the Brits have to exit 9 EVP of personnel off either hex 6aI11 (the bridge) or the south edge of the map as long as they have exited an AFV with riders or have a mobile AFV still on the board.

Do I have that correct or must the the Brits exit an AFV with riders and have a mobile AFV on board?

It seems to me that the two directions are mutually exclusive. The Brits cannot get 5 off the bridge and 4 off the south edge.

I would think the Brits must exit said AFV off the south edge or across the bridge but can they also exit the AFV with riders off the friendly (in this case east) board edge?

Thanks

Mike

 

[Honosbinda]

'and/or' means you can do one, the other, or both.

One of a) or b) must be accomplished, but a) and b) accomplished together are also acceptable.

As for the Exit victory condition, you're right, either 9 VP must exit of 6aI11 OR the south edge of the map. You can't split the exit forces for a win.

These are bloody convoluted victory conditions! Sounds challenging.

 

[klasmalmstrom]

I would think the Brits must exit said AFV off the south edge or across the bridge but can they also exit the AFV with riders off the friendly (in this case east) board edge?

IIRC, the intention is that the AFV must exit of the south edge or hex 6aI11 (one probably wants to do that anyway). But if I remember incorrectly then there is nothing stopping them from exiting across any board edge. The Friendly Board Edge defined in SSR 1 is mainly there for the purpose of knowing where to exit Recelled vehicles.
Might want to drop MMP a Q&A on this matter.

 

[sfcmikej]

Thanks Honosbinda and Klas for the clarification. I agree with you Klas. The Brits want to exit the tank loaded with a victory point infantry off the bridge or the south edge but I was anticipated that rare event where the 9 points of personnel have made it to safety and the only way to get tank off before it is destroyed is not the bridge or south edge. Thanks again guys.

Mike

 

[Maurizizio]

Sorry guys, this is a very old discussion, but playing CyberLeague in BPEM, together with my opponent, we think that the other one has won the scenario. This is a funny case whereas one player thought he won, then the opponent (me) specify the condition. The player then think to concede but the opponent (always me) is sure he has lost the scenario..... ASL !!!!
So, following this discussion, the first player realized only now that having chosen the bridge he needs to exit the VP from the bridge. However the opponent (again me) read the VC as if an AFV that exit correctly from the bridge, worth VP with the exclusion of the crew, therefore I thought each vehicle worth 2VP (1 MA, 1 AF). Is my interpretation of the AFV VP being part of the calculation correct?

I hope my explanation is clear enough, or at least as clear as the Victory Conditions (at least for no mother tongue speaker) ....

 

[jrv]

Sorry guys, this is a very old discussion, but playing CyberLeague in BPEM, together with my opponent, we think that the other one has won the scenario. This is a funny case whereas one player thought he won, then the opponent (me) specify the condition. The player then think to concede but the opponent (always me) is sure he has lost the scenario..... ASL !!!!
So, following this discussion, the first player realized only now that having chosen the bridge he needs to exit the VP from the bridge. However the opponent (again me) read the VC as if an AFV that exit correctly from the bridge, worth VP with the exclusion of the crew, therefore I thought each vehicle worth 2VP (1 MA, 1 AF). Is my interpretation of the AFV VP being part of the calculation correct?

First vehicles with MA and one AF are worth five CVP, one for being a vehicle, one for the MA, one for the AF and two for the crew.

In this scenario for the purposes of the exit VP, only non-crew Personnel count. Vehicles count for nothing. Inherent crews count for nothing: to be Personnel the unit has to be in counter form. The difference between Infantry and Personnel is that all Infantry are Personnel as well, but Riders and Passengers are Personnel but not Infantry. The British have to exit nine EVP of squads, halfsquads, and/or leaders as Infantry, Passengers and/or Riders. In addition either they have to have two one or more surviving AFVs or have exited two one or more AFVs carrying riders. If the AFV exit they still count for no EVP; they just count as surviving AFV.

JR

 

[Maurizizio]

Thank you JR, I guess my learning curve is not as steep as I thought...
This is an unexpected result to say the least....

 

[jrv]

As a minor note, although the VC above says the British must have > 1 AFV surviving and/or exiting with riders, the actual VC say ≥ 1.

JR