help on complicated to hit calculations

Ed Donoghue

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It seems that my brain goes numb every time I try to reason out the other than nice simple TH DRMs. Please help me with this.

It is the DFPh, & I have a NT, CE, AFV, in OG & in motion that wishes to fire @ a large stationary vehicle 5 hexes away in OG with no hinderances. My vehicle needs to make a 1 hexspine VCA change then fire.

After discussing it with my opponent, we used A, B, C, C-4, & P, on the TH table

Please breakdown the correct DRM modifications for the TH # for me.

Thank you.
 

jrv

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Since the vehicle is in Motion, it must not be the vehicle's MPh.

Case A +3 one-spine VCA change plus …
Case C⁴ double lower dr plus …
Case C +3 NT plus …
Case B +2 plus …
Case P -1 large target

With the doubled lower dr, that is a minimum of +8 and a maximum of +13.

Although you say the enemy vehicle is "stationary", did it move there during the turn or begin in Motion and stop? If so, it is a Moving target (C.8) and so should also get the Case J (and possibly Case J¹) DRM.

JR
 

Pyth

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+8/+13... !!

Ed -- the upshot is -- Do not leave AFVs in motion if you foresee needing to fire the MA in this turn or the next. The motion vehicle gains a +2 defensive modifer for motion (and also makes point blank DRMs NA, which can matter) but at the cost of becoming defenseless in terms of return fire against armored attackers -- for all practical purposes it's as if your MA is malf'd from the end of your Mph (when your motion status begins) thru the entireity of the next player's turn and then thru your next Prepfire phase and the beginning of your movement phase. This is because your AFV will be motion/non-stopped until it expends an MP... and that stop MP expenditure comes in you MPh and will be subject to what DFF your opponent has available. So, leaving an AFV in motion often concedes two shots to a single enemy unit (and that's without Intensive fire or ROF).

If the AFV in your initial question were stopped the DRMs go from the impossible +8/+13 to -- a mere +2 (Case A +3 and Case P -1) .. for a rather tasty vehicle target type 10+2 shot. (I second JRV's sense that you should make sure you haven't missed an application of Case J).

IMO the motion fire DRMs are bonkers -- (I'm happy to elaborate if anyone wants to hear it)-- But these are settled rules. There is a heretical rule which allows defenders "stop" attempts. But the game plays just fine with standard rules once you realize motion status has to be gamed carefully: the more important the Gun is to the vehicle's defense the less you want that Gun left in motion.
 

jrv

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+8/+13... !!
A fair portion of this is because the shooter is a NT AFV that has to change CA. Without that, the DRM range is +5 to +10. In that case the moving vehicle hits 8/36 of the time = 22.2%. That's pretty good considering. That assumes the target vehicle was not moving, which is a bit surprising but perhaps it was so.

JR
 
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Ed Donoghue

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Since the vehicle is in Motion, it must not be the vehicle's MPh.

Case A +3 one-spine VCA change plus …
Case C⁴ double lower dr plus …
Case C +3 NT plus …
Case B +2 plus …
Case P -1 large target

With the doubled lower dr, that is a minimum of +8 and a maximum of +13.

Although you say the enemy vehicle is "stationary", did it move there during the turn or begin in Motion and stop? If so, it is a Moving target (C.8) and so should also get the Case J (and possibly Case J¹) DRM.

JR
Thank you that's exactly what we came up with, but it took about 20 minutes & seemed unreasonable.
 

jrv

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Thank you that's exactly what we came up with, but it took about 20 minutes & seemed unreasonable.
It takes a while to realize, but the shorthand for moving firer cases B/C is: turret (fast, slow or RST), +4 or no turret, +5. That applies to a vehicle moving during its own MPh, a vehicle that moved and is now firing in the AFPh, and a Motion vehicle in the enemy MPh or DFPh. If the vehicle not stopped, double the lower dr too. Case A (changing CA) does not apply during the friendly MPh because the vehicle actually has to turn; at other times it applies. Everything else is normal DRM. This leaves out gyro stabilizers, but it will get you through 95% of scenarios.

JR
 

Ed Donoghue

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It takes a while to realize, but the shorthand for moving firer cases B/C is: turret (fast, slow or RST), +4 or no turret, +5. That applies to a vehicle moving during its own MPh, a vehicle that moved and is now firing in the AFPh, and a Motion vehicle in the enemy MPh or DFPh. If the vehicle not stopped, double the lower dr too. Case A (changing CA) does not apply during the friendly MPh because the vehicle actually has to turn; at other times it applies. Everything else is normal DRM. This leaves out gyro stabilizers, but it will get you through 95% of scenarios.

JR
Outstanding! You have no idea how valuable this is. Thank you so much.
 

mgmasl

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From woods or building add +1..
 
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