Helos & LOS what gives

[tws71669]

Hello again everyone,
I need an explanation about the helos and the LOS tool.
1- How is elevation measured in the movement panel, it starts at "50" but 50 what ? meters?
2- If I increase my elevation, and there are troops in clear terrain, I use my LOS tool to see if the nearby chopper can spot those units. When I check LOS, all the values are read as if from ground level. That makes no sense. Elevation should be calculated from the correct alt. other wise my spotting ability for choppers is no different than a guy on the ground... pointless.
3- On the bluefields map, if my choppers are above the water off the coast and I check LOS it shows my spotter terrain as foilage and hills... Why? It seems that water is not being taken as water by the LOS tool, but like a combination of urban and rural terrain.

Any ideas ?


:cheeky:

 

[tws71669]

Okay... I did a little searching and see that Don already brought these issues up and they are being worked on regarding the LOS tool... but that still doesn't tell me why the water terrain is displaying as anything but water, and I don't know how alt. is measured... so if anyone has an answer to those question I would be thankful/
-T

 

[Old&Slow]

I`ll be amazed if they can get the LOS tool working with Helos, that would mean it`s functioning in 3 dimensions. :surprise:

The calculations for that are mind boggling :nuts:

 

[MikeSinn]

I`ll be amazed if they can get the LOS tool working with Helos, that would mean it`s functioning in 3 dimensions. :surprise:

The calculations for that are mind boggling :nuts:

Would the necessary calculations actually be all that difficult?

If I remember my high school geometry correctly (and there is no guarantee that my memory is remotely correct), this should be a fairly simple Pythagorean function. The program already calculates the horizontal distance and it knows the vertical distance to the helicopter. Calculating the length of the hypotenuse should be something that even my old high school calculator could do.

 

[tws71669]

Would the necessary calculations actually be all that difficult?

If I remember my high school geometry correctly (and there is no guarantee that my memory is remotely correct), this should be a fairly simple Pythagorean function. The program already calculates the horizontal distance and it know the vertical distance to the helicopter. Calculating the length of the hypotenuse should be something that even my old high school calculator could do.

Methinks ladies and gents we found a Volunteer!

 

[MikeSinn]

Methinks ladies and gents we found a Volunteer!

You obviously never saw my grades in geometry

 

[Old&Slow]

Would the necessary calculations actually be all that difficult?

If I remember my high school geometry correctly (and there is no guarantee that my memory is remotely correct), this should be a fairly simple Pythagorean function. The program already calculates the horizontal distance and it knows the vertical distance to the helicopter. Calculating the length of the hypotenuse should be something that even my old high school calculator could do.

The thing is the LOS tool _seems_ to work on the basis of spotting hex to hex, not taking into account if there is a unit in the spotting hex at all.

If this is so, the entire LOS algorithms would either have to be re-written to recognize a unit is in the hex, it`s an Air Unit, and it`s altitude, or a seperate LOS tool created just for air units.

Given the current very basic issues with the Game this seems to be waaaaaaaay down the road, although I hope I`m wrong.

 

[tws71669]

That would make the LOS tool more of a generic item showing only the terrain at and to points A and B. rather thanthe specific spotting capability of a unit in a specific hex.... I think I am mistaking the LOS tool for being relative to the spotting unit instead of generic to the points being referenced.... does this make sense, the manual isn;t much clearer...
-T

 

[Dr Zaius]

At the present time, the LOS tool determines if one hex can be seen from another hex. It isn't unit-to-unit, it's hex-to-hex. There is no tool for spotting unit-to-unit, although the DF interface can be used as a poor man's version.

I asked Scott about this and he said no one had ever raised the issue or explained why there was a need for a unit-to-unit LOS tool in a command level game. We can debate that decision some more, but I would guess this would fall pretty far down the "wish list" for now.

 

[Old&Slow]

At the present time, the LOS tool determines if one hex can be seen from another hex. It isn't unit-to-unit, it's hex-to-hex. There is no tool for spotting unit-to-unit, although the DF interface can be used as a poor man's version.

I asked Scott about this and he said no one had ever raised the issue or explained why there was a need for a unit-to-unit LOS tool in a command level game. We can debate that decision some more, but I would guess this would fall pretty far down the "wish list" for now.

Thanks for clearing that up Don.

I think that giving Helos true LOS spotting, and an accurate targeting & hitting model combined with an accurate " surviveability" model could turn them into " Death Stars " and make balanced scenario design very hard.

Having said that, and NOT trying to be a P***K, is there any indication of when the next offical patch is due, and what will be fixed ? Weeks, Months, Years ??

I don`t want to make that a big deal with it`s own thread, but with the very basic and obvious problems with the core parts of the Game ( LOS, Close Combat, Multi Parts, Movement , Helos, the DB values , CAS, etc. ) there`s not much we can contribute by testing until they are solved.

 

[tws71669]

Don, thanks for the clarification... I suppose Scott is correct. After all if I want a clearer idea of what a unit can actaully see, the LOS tool isn't as relevant as some of the overlays available.

Thanks!
-T

 

[Rocky]

Hex to hex wasn't a problem in the Tigers/Panthers days where the only relevant spotting units were ground based, but it is with airborne spotters.

Adding the AGL altitude of the helo to the height of the hex would seem to be the simple solution. The code may be more suitably arcane that the simple solution won't work, of course. :cheeky: