Helicopter damage

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I think the helicopters in TacOps are getting hit and damaged way too easily by small arms fire, AH64's seem to be getting downed way to easily by infantry units which have no AA capability to start with, a kill on an AH64 is rare with small arms, because its basically a bank vault thickness armored bathtub with devestating weaponry, and there are so many back-up systems to keep it alive its untrue.

I wondered if any-one has thought the same or has any comment on the matter? am I going mad? :nuts:
 

Dr Zaius

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Not really (I'm a US Army aviator). The AH-64 does have armor, but this is limited to protection for the pilots. The rest of the aircraft is as vulnerable as any other combat helicopter. The aircraft can fly on one engine in most situations, but if it's hot outside and the aircraft is carrying a full ammo load then it can get tricky.

Some aircraft systems do have a degree of redundancy such as the hydraulics and electronics, but all helicopters are vulnerable in the rotor system. The airfract can take some punishment, but no helicopter is going to fly far with a damaged or unbalanced rotor system. Small arms fire will indded bring down any helicopter in the world, particularly fire from weapons like a .50 cal.

Haviong said all that, it usually isn't all that easy to actually hit one. Helicopters move low and fast and it can be difficult to get a clear shot. if you can get a clear shot at a reasonable range, any helicopter can be brought down. Now I can't speak about how well this is being implemented in TacOps because I have only played a few games with the demo.
 

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Thanks for that Don, straight from expert!!

What about the Russian MI-24 HIND that is a tough beast :devil: , I expect that could take a huge beating from small arms fire? I havent encountered one in TacOps yet, but it would be interesting to stage a small exchange of fire between some infantry and the HIND to see what effect it has.
 

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switch_back said:
Thanks for that Don, straight from expert!!

What about the Russian MI-24 HIND that is a tough beast :devil: , I expect that could take a huge beating from small arms fire? I havent encountered one in TacOps yet, but it would be interesting to stage a small exchange of fire between some infantry and the HIND to see what effect it has.
Yes and no. I've been in and all over the MI-24 we captured in Iraq in Desert Storm. It does have some significant armor on the front which protects it, to a degree, from small arms fire. On the other hand, the rotor blades and tail rotor paddles are way inferior to those manufactured for our aircraft. The rotor system is also so-so compared to that found on a US helicopter. All things being equal, I would prefer a UH-60 to a MI-24. The UH doesn't have any armor (just a little bit for the pilots), but it's way more survivable if it does get hit. The best protection for a helicopter is not to get hit in the first place!
 

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On your point about the rotor paddles being inferior, this is true, but the HIND is a hefty piece of machinery to get off the ground, and those paddles must surely provide it with perfectly ample lift to get it off the ground? Or were you refering to the rotor blades getting hit by ground fire?

I believe the HIND is armored and designed the way it is, because one of its roles is dropping and picking up troops in potentially Hot LZ's where its heavy weaponry and heavy armor really does the job! Although inferior to US and UK helicopters, the HIND is truely something to be admired, wouldnt you agree? ;)
 

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switch_back said:
I think the helicopters in TacOps are getting hit and damaged way too easily by small arms fire, AH64's seem to be getting downed way to easily by infantry units
If you are losing Apaches to infantry units then you are simply getting way too close to them. The armor on the Apache is on the crew compartment. It helps the aircrew survive a brief burst of ground fire so that they can get their probably now damaged aircraft out of the area but it does not make the Apache invulnerable.

If there is an inaccuracy it would be that TacOps splashes some Apaches (and other helos) that in real life would have only been damaged and immediately flown out of the battle area. Rather than go to the trouble to automatically take a damaged helo out of play by first flying it to a map edge, TacOps just instantly eliminates them at the point of damage.
 
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I see now what you mean Major thanks, I must say though I usually stumble across infantry by accident not by choice :)

At least now if they get splashed I can figure an excuse for why its "not actually destroyed" :D
 

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switch_back said:
On your point about the rotor paddles being inferior, this is true, but the HIND is a hefty piece of machinery to get off the ground, and those paddles must surely provide it with perfectly ample lift to get it off the ground? Or were you refering to the rotor blades getting hit by ground fire?
I'm talking about taking ground fire. MajorH is exactly right. The Apache's armor is to protect the pilots and give them time to make a graceful exit. If the aircraft takes really heavy fire -- like that from an AA gun -- it's probably going down.

The best way to think of an attack helicopter is a "drive-by shooting." Shoot, but do so in such a way that the enemy can't return fire.
 

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Don Maddox said:
I'm talking about taking ground fire. MajorH is exactly right. The Apache's armor is to protect the pilots and give them time to make a graceful exit. If the aircraft takes really heavy fire -- like that from an AA gun -- it's probably going down.

The best way to think of an attack helicopter is a "drive-by shooting." Shoot, but do so in such a way that the enemy can't return fire.

Ok I see now thanks guys! :D I appreciate your input

Yes the good oldie slashing attack where you fly at high speed straight through the target splashing what you can before diving back into cover! also Attack Helicopters have a tactic which I see as "lobbing rocks at a crowd over a wall" when they sit behind a hill or thick treeline, pop up take a freeze frame radar picture, get back into cover and use it to launch Hellfires which fly up and over the blocking terrain and slam down onto the target, its called LOAL or LOBL or something isnt it?
 

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That is indeed an eye opener if that was the one shot down on the 11th that the search brought out! Unknown ground fire??
 

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Just to make that clear about TacOps:

the TacOps unit database does model whether a helicopter has some amount of armor protection or not.

For example, the Apache has 15mm all round, the Hind has 10mm and the Mi8/17 has none, even in the gunship/AT configuration.

Having said that, TacOps is a very lethal wargame in general. If you get something into a place where it could be killed, it will usually be killed. That applies to every aspect from anti-tank fire to artillery. TacOps gameplay is very driven by being punished hard and quick for screwing up, and not so much by a "wrestling" style combat that WW2 wargames like Combat Mission show.

So it is very much in line with the rest of the game that you sometimes lose helicopters when flying nap of earth over anything with automatic weapons.
 
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