HE v. Infantry - Critical Hit TEM reversal question

rossssss

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This is probably an easy one.

The situation:

An Italian 65mm INF Howitzer fire on a stack in a single level stone building. He rolls a 1,1 on his TH DR. After Random Selection, the unit(s) selected take a 16FP shot. Does the TEM reversal apply to them? -3 in this case. I'm guessing so based on this wording in C3.71 (my emphasis added): "Furthermore, any positive TEM...which that target would normally be entitled to for TH or IFT purposes is reversed...and applies as a negative DRM to the IFT DR."

Basically I'm just looking for confirmation that I'm reading that correctly. Even though the +3 TEM has already been applied to the shot (Case Q), the reversal still applies to the resolution?
 

Spencer Armstrong

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This is probably an easy one.

The situation:

An Italian 65mm INF Howitzer fire on a stack in a single level stone building. He rolls a 1,1 on his TH DR. After Random Selection, the unit(s) selected take a 16FP shot. Does the TEM reversal apply to them? -3 in this case. I'm guessing so based on this wording in C3.71 (my emphasis added): "Furthermore, any positive TEM...which that target would normally be entitled to for TH or IFT purposes is reversed...and applies as a negative DRM to the IFT DR."

Basically I'm just looking for confirmation that I'm reading that correctly. Even though the +3 TEM has already been applied to the shot (Case Q), the reversal still applies to the resolution?
Yes, the effects DR would be resolved with a -3 on an ITT CH against the affected units.

However, are you sure that 1,1 resulted in a CH? On the ITT against a stone building, you very likely need a subsequent dr to be sure that's a CH.

S
 

rossssss

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Thanks, Spencer.

Hmm, now you've got me confused about CH :)

It was a Basic TH of 8 (no modifications from C4 stuff). +3 TEM +3 Hindrances.

From C3.7: "A CH also occurs while using the Infantry Target Type whenever the Final TH DR is < half the Modified TH# (3.3), or on an Original TH DR of 2 followed by a subsequent dr of 1 or ≤ half of the Modified TH#"

Does "Final TH DR" mean the DR + the relevant DRM (in this case the +6)?
 

Spencer Armstrong

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Thanks, Spencer.

Hmm, now you've got me confused about CH :)

It was a Basic TH of 8 (no modifications from C4 stuff). +3 TEM +3 Hindrances.

From C3.7: "A CH also occurs while using the Infantry Target Type whenever the Final TH DR is < half the Modified TH# (3.3), or on an Original TH DR of 2 followed by a subsequent dr of 1 or ≤ half of the Modified TH#"

Does "Final TH DR" mean the DR + the relevant DRM (in this case the +6)?
Yes, that's exactly what it means. So, on a roll of 2 (final TH 8), you need a subsequent dr of <=4 (the Modified TH is 8, since that only includes Gun size/length and Ammo modifications) to be a CH.

ITT CHs are typically either harder or easier to achieve than VTT/ATT CHs due to this.. The flip side is that if you're running across open ground (-2), ITT CHs happen on 5s or less for firers within 6 hexes.

I know this rule, but I NEVER remember it in the heat of the moment!

S
 

klasmalmstrom

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...Even though the +3 TEM has already been applied to the shot (Case Q), the reversal still applies to the resolution?
See also C.3 - "No TEM, Hindrance or other DRM ever affects both the To Hit DR and the resulting Effects DR; it affects only one or the other [EXC: CH: 3.71]."
 

horseshoe

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Yes, that's exactly what it means. So, on a roll of 2 (final TH 8), you need a subsequent dr of <=4 (the Modified TH is 8, since that only includes Gun size/length and Ammo modifications) to be a CH.

ITT CHs are typically either harder or easier to achieve than VTT/ATT CHs due to this.. The flip side is that if you're running across open ground (-2), ITT CHs happen on 5s or less for firers within 6 hexes.

I know this rule, but I NEVER remember it in the heat of the moment!

S
We never remember it either. :angry:

Its a 1,1 followed by yelling CH, CH, CH......:blab::blab::blab:
 

Larry

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All target types require a subsequent dr if the original 2 DR is the highest number that will hit the target. For infantry, the CH is still easier to get, <= half the modified TH. On the ATT/VTT, the subsequent dr of only 1 is a turret CH with 2-6 causing normal hull hit. C3.7.
 

horseshoe

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All target types require a subsequent dr if the original 2 DR is the highest number that will hit the target. For infantry, the CH is still easier to get, <= half the modified TH. On the ATT/VTT, the subsequent dr of only 1 is a turret CH with 2-6 causing normal hull hit. C3.7.
IIRC, a 1 is a CH, a 2 is a turret hit, a 3 is a hull hit and 4-6 is a MISS...:hmmm:
 

klasmalmstrom

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IIRC, a 1 is a CH, a 2 is a turret hit, a 3 is a hull hit and 4-6 is a MISS...:hmmm:
That is for an Improbable Hit, where a TH DR of 1,1 would not even be a hit. But when you roll a 1,1 on the VTT/ATT and you just hit the target with that 1,1 a subsequent dr = 1 is a CH, a 2-6 is a normal hit.

C3.7:
"...If only the lowest Final TH DR possible for that shot would achieve a hit, a CH occurs only on a subsequent dr of 1 following that hit; a 2-6 results in a normal hull hit (or a normal turret hit vs a HD vehicle)..."
 

Larry

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IIRC, a 1 is a CH, a 2 is a turret hit, a 3 is a hull hit and 4-6 is a MISS...:hmmm:
That is for an improbable hit, i.e. an original 2 DR is still a miss. Then 1 is CH, 2 is turr., 3 is hull, and 4-6 is a swing and a miss.
 

horseshoe

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You gentlemen are indeed correct. I was quoting for an improbable hit. OOOPs:crosseye:
 
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