william.stoppel
Elder Member
No black and white SS Perry?
Hatten In Flames available for pre-order
- Thread starter Peter Bartlett
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klasmalmstrom
Forum Guru
No SS units in Hatten, IIRC.
GeorgeBates
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Hey, Klas, isn't it your bedtime?
Sparky
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you all really are rough on stand up ASL comedians man...
Sparky
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live a little bit MMP.. see you are getting with the whole winter map kind of thing which is cool. How about kicking it up a notch. How about some winter camo AFV counters.
See what all can do perhaps. Counters aren't merely a tool, they can be a canvas. Have some fun with them.
See what all can do perhaps. Counters aren't merely a tool, they can be a canvas. Have some fun with them.
Mr Incredible
Rod loves red undies
Not even 48 hours since it went on preorder and almost hit the P#!
You go you good thing.
You go you good thing.
JR Brackin
Cardboard Challanged
only 71 more to go to make the preorder number - lets get a move on
Andrew Rogers
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===
There has been lots of talk about counters ... with a few more Shermans, Stugs etc planned for 'Hatten in Flames' ...
In terms of possible funky and fun counters, numerous accounts had the German ME262 as the occasional visitor to areas around the Hatten battlespace. Drawing on the F-80C 'Forgotten War' artwork and adding the magic of photoshop ... you might want to consider adding the attached ME262 counter to your 'personal canvas of homemade goodies' (aka the UNOFFICIAL counter mix).
The recommended house-rules are simple, roll a couple of successive "1s" in your spotting check and you might land a bomb in the vicinity (circa 100m) of a Sherman tank during a typical misty cloudy January 1945 winter's day over Hatten.
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I had thought about aircraft extensions over the years. To my delight (and the despair of some) BFP added quite a few aircraft in their counter sheets. While not turning ASL into an air combat game they did add some subtlety and nuance, nice to see other than cookie cutter aircraft.
Nice work on the graphic, though I would make some, hopefully useful, minor criticism.
I think the FB '50 silhouette is of a McDonnell F2H Banshee, not the F-80 Shooting Star.
On the "Bomb side", the RoF is [1] for existing official FB, the non-bomb side being [2]. That's fairly standard ASL canon.
On more subjective things, the Me 262 could carry 2 x 250 kg (550 lb) bombs (2 x 500 kg/1100 lb bombs but only 2 cannon for the A-2a version), almost the same as a Hawker Typhoon, so I would rate its bomb value the same as a '44 FB at 150.
The Me 262 is one of few FB that I would be inclined to give a FP of 16, due to its 4 x MK 108 30 mm cannon which had a particularly good HE content, really great against aircraft, soft targets and flesh. I would play it safe and keep its TK at 6, the same as a '44 FB as the MK 108 30mm only had a moderate muzzle velocity and penetration about the same as a 0.50"/12.7mm MG. The much heavier MK 103 30mm would be a different kettle of fish with penetration with APCR of 75-95mm at 300m and 90°, so a TK of up to 12, but a lower rate of fire would bring the FP back to 12 for a 4 gun configuration or mixed in with others.
As a generalised comment, I would have preferred if MMP had set the defensive DRM (the starred number) to 4 for all jets as even at low level their speed made them harder to hit than any piston aircraft.
Nice work on the graphic, though I would make some, hopefully useful, minor criticism.
I think the FB '50 silhouette is of a McDonnell F2H Banshee, not the F-80 Shooting Star.
On the "Bomb side", the RoF is [1] for existing official FB, the non-bomb side being [2]. That's fairly standard ASL canon.
On more subjective things, the Me 262 could carry 2 x 250 kg (550 lb) bombs (2 x 500 kg/1100 lb bombs but only 2 cannon for the A-2a version), almost the same as a Hawker Typhoon, so I would rate its bomb value the same as a '44 FB at 150.
The Me 262 is one of few FB that I would be inclined to give a FP of 16, due to its 4 x MK 108 30 mm cannon which had a particularly good HE content, really great against aircraft, soft targets and flesh. I would play it safe and keep its TK at 6, the same as a '44 FB as the MK 108 30mm only had a moderate muzzle velocity and penetration about the same as a 0.50"/12.7mm MG. The much heavier MK 103 30mm would be a different kettle of fish with penetration with APCR of 75-95mm at 300m and 90°, so a TK of up to 12, but a lower rate of fire would bring the FP back to 12 for a 4 gun configuration or mixed in with others.
As a generalised comment, I would have preferred if MMP had set the defensive DRM (the starred number) to 4 for all jets as even at low level their speed made them harder to hit than any piston aircraft.
Sparky
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yeah but how many more black blob Shermans, Stugs etc does one need. I totally get including what is needed to play in the product but good god what an opportunity MMP is throwing away, and has IMO for years by ignoring the significant percentage of the playing population that cares as much about the counters as they do their maps. MMP does wonderful counters, for every damn game they print BUT for ASL. They can do it, and let me tell you, people will pay out the nose to have good colored, detailed, and evocative counters.
There are people literally wanting to throw money MMP's way, That money could be theirs, instead, it is going to others. I know I'm sort of going larger scope than merely your design here Andrew but yours is a perfect place for MMP to step out out a bit and go for it.
Include more standard Shermans or Stugs. Whoopty fking Doo. MMP take a first step, that most every single other producer has recognized, that modern counters sell and drive excitement.. now we are talking. I'd love to see MMP do something to upgrade their counters. I suppose I'm yapping in this thread because it is perfect place for them to do just that.
and yeah, from most accounts the Me262 was used as Hitler did want it used, a a fighter bomber during this fighting. Again though, 3rd party have already lapped MMP times over in doing specific aircraft counters rather than 'generic' blob counters. Though I don't think anyone has done a me262 yet.
robarrieta
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Will there be a von Luck counter?
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ASL is not a figurine hobby.
I like new toys, but don't care about multi colour counter art: it actually makes the vehicle silhouettes less discernible.
Not speaking of the unavoidable discrepancy between a specific camo and a situation where it doesn't apply.
I am grateful that MMP sticks with the sober, informative counters.
They would have lost a lot of time trying to repaint the vehicle counters, while not investing in core module reprints and new HASL/scenario packs.
Hatten in Flames is interesting for me, first because of its scenarios and its historical map.
If there were no "new" toys, so be it.
And the OT AFV already look as if they have winter camo.
I like new toys, but don't care about multi colour counter art: it actually makes the vehicle silhouettes less discernible.
Not speaking of the unavoidable discrepancy between a specific camo and a situation where it doesn't apply.
I am grateful that MMP sticks with the sober, informative counters.
They would have lost a lot of time trying to repaint the vehicle counters, while not investing in core module reprints and new HASL/scenario packs.
Hatten in Flames is interesting for me, first because of its scenarios and its historical map.
If there were no "new" toys, so be it.
And the OT AFV already look as if they have winter camo.
Mr Incredible
Rod loves red undies
35 to go!
Zugführer
Member
I totally agree with You with everything You said.
My dream were the ASL counters could be put out of a sprue with Your thumb like the counters in board games and would have pre-cutted rounded corners. But I assume that would be too expensive for so many counters.
The "art" of the ASL counters by itself is functional and I'm fine with the ASL counters.
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I think that it would require thicker cardboard - after what I experienced with some GMT games which have that feature.
One, perhaps unnoticed progress with die cut counters is that they are now attached to the sheet by their corners - and not in the middle of their sides.
So, I puch them out with my hands and use a counter clipper to make their corners "clean".
Andrew Rogers
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I vote 'no' to pre-cutted corners and vote 'yes' for octagonal counters ... this would give the counter cutters/trimmers double the fun (and thicker cardboard as well)
GeorgeBates
Elder Member
You guys and your counter fetishes are so lame. It's the scenario cards that are sexy.
Yuri0352
Elder Member
Exactly!
If you want to see a bunch of true "black blob Shermans" , check out the vehicle counters in CH's U.S. nationality counter sets. Ugly, disproportionately small and generally unreadable. MMP 's vehicle and ordnance counters are just fine by me.
On the other hand, I must say that I prefer the colorful, specific model aircraft counters which BFP has been producing.
A shame that apparently the presence of German and Soviet aircraft has been designed out of MMP'S some-day-who-knows-when-to-be-released Ponyri HASL.
Whiskers1123
Member
I don't know what your looking at but I have the CH US Nationality set and I don't see one black blob and I can read them fine. They are just as good as the MMP counters. I just want to set the facts straight for those that haven't seen them.
