Hatten CG thoughts...

sdennis

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So my brother and I wrapped up Hatten yesterday with an American win when it became clear that the Germans were going to be fighting a severe uphill battle to hang on.
We played through the 11th date, with the Americans taking back the graveyard and being setup to push hard to T7 and beyond in the next day.
The Germans had D13, M7, K13, and had just taken J17. They still held T7 but I think that one would have been hard to hang on to and the Americans had enough troops to hold the rest.

Couple of discussion points.
  1. The Germans never got Y13 and I think this is key for a German win. By not controlling this area the Americans under mortar WP was able to get back to the graveyard pretty easily.
  2. American 150 OBA just decimated the Germans this day, allowed the Americans to firmly control the Y13 neighborhood and on the last stonk got lucky and zeroed in on K16 to basically crush the German push there.
  3. Tank battle, due to some luck the Americans crushed the German armor. Every Stug was dead and only one Panther remained at the end... How important is it for the Germans to husband their armor?
 

Doug Kirk

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From the AAR section

Yep, Germans need to conserve his forces, both tanks and infantry. The graveyard is hard for anyone to defend.
 

Tater

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So my brother and I wrapped up Hatten yesterday with an American win when it became clear that the Germans were going to be fighting a severe uphill battle to hang on.
We played through the 11th date, with the Americans taking back the graveyard and being setup to push hard to T7 and beyond in the next day.
The Germans had D13, M7, K13, and had just taken J17. They still held T7 but I think that one would have been hard to hang on to and the Americans had enough troops to hold the rest.

Couple of discussion points.
  1. The Germans never got Y13 and I think this is key for a German win. By not controlling this area the Americans under mortar WP was able to get back to the graveyard pretty easily.
  2. American 150 OBA just decimated the Germans this day, allowed the Americans to firmly control the Y13 neighborhood and on the last stonk got lucky and zeroed in on K16 to basically crush the German push there.
  3. Tank battle, due to some luck the Americans crushed the German armor. Every Stug was dead and only one Panther remained at the end... How important is it for the Germans to husband their armor?
My playing went the exact opposite.

I focused on buying as many elite forces (including the AE's) right out of the gate as the German.

I blitzed from the start and stayed on top of the American infantry...never letting him build separation so that if he tried to zero in OBA on my infantry he was just as likely to get his troops as mine. Conversely, I brought my OBA in behind the Ami front line so he was always being forced to either rout into my OBA or to risky rally points...which allowed me to repeatedly cut rout paths using the HT's and PzIV's on the flanks. The moral difference of 8 vs mostly 6's and some 7's was a huge difference. The Ami infantry just couldn't hack the German FP.

As long as you don't let the Ami get side shots the Panthers and JgdPzIV are practically invulnerable to US ordnance.

A Panther hull down in the graveyard along with the 81Mtrs and a couple of MG kept the Ami's away for the whole CG. That combined with the constant pressure on the center and other flank and even going after the graveyard became a luxury the Ami couldn't afford.

I kept an HMG/HS/Ldr in the level 2 bell-tower the whole time. Sure the Ami would bring OBA in on it, but so what, that is 1 leader and 1 HS tying down a whole OBA module. If he didn't keep an OBA or a couple of Guns/Tanks hammering the bell tower I was eating up his squads with multiple CR's over and over.

After the second date the Ami simply couldn't keep up with Infantry which allowed the German to sort of maraud around with Psk armed HS so that the Ami armor had to stay constantly on the move. About half way through date 4 the Ami threw in the towel.
 

sdennis

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I kept an HMG/HS/Ldr in the level 2 bell-tower the whole time. Sure the Ami would bring OBA in on it, but so what, that is 1 leader and 1 HS tying down a whole OBA module. If he didn't keep an OBA or a couple of Guns/Tanks hammering the bell tower I was eating up his squads with multiple CR's over and over.
So your American opponent never smoked/WP the tower? Every time that guy was up there I WPed him
 

Tater

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So your American opponent never smoked/WP the tower? Every time that guy was up there I WPed him
Yeah, he tried...after I lost '?' on that first shot...but that Mtr boy has to kind of put himself out in the open to get a clear LOS. He had to hit (TH & exponent) the first time or he was getting hammered...you know SMOKE isn't automatic...and is about as fickle as OBA. If he does get the SMOKE down then he is probably in LOS of my other forces. A couple of times I was able to SMOKE (and/or break) his Mtr boy before he could get the tower. Besides, if the Ami Mtr(s) are trying to SMOKE the tower, they aren't placing SMOKE for an Ami advance. Again, a single HS and -1 leader in a "best-of" location for an HMG, in exchange for occupying Ami assets that could have a better use elsewhere...meh. The distraction and nuisance of the bell tower HMG was worth even more than the actual results of the fire. It was like having a one hex (7FP -1 or -2) OBA that could come in at any time or anywhere. It was also a risk for the OT Ami TD's.

He did burn an OBA FFE on the tower at one point. He broke the squad (leader passed). They routed down stairs. Once the OBA moved on I rallied and jump back up to grab the HMG again. Over and over he would be intensely maneuvering to get in position to pressure my line and forget about the tower HMG...then BAM!

Bottom line...regardless of the risks...there is absolutely no reason the German (or American if he controls the location) not to start each scenario with a HS, HMG and -1 (at least) leader in the bell tower. It is a relatively small force allocation that has a high return on investment potential while risking minimal assets.
 
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sdennis

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I think I used WP from one of the M4s a few times to nullify him. Kept him in the back and just kept doing it.
 

Tater

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I think I used WP from one of the M4s a few times to nullify him. Kept him in the back and just kept doing it.
So you traded an M4 for a HS/HMG...that is a win for the German...I guess you are a very lucky guy to have gotten the exponent every single time. I wish I could get SMOKE like that.

Now the rest of ASL humanity would have maneuvered an M4 in position...missed the exponent...then have to maneuver another M4 into position...get the WP but have no more WP...then have to maneuver a third M4 into position for any other attempts. 🤣
 

Carln0130

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So far my WP with the Americans has been running about 30% for the game. I have tried to use it several times and several times they have horrifically dedicated upon the sheets and wiped themselves with the curtains. Fortunately, going into the last date, it is a nail biter.
 

Tater

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So far my WP with the Americans has been running about 30% for the game.
Yeah, that sounds about right...

In the later dates I sighted an ATG over the area where the Ami would be best positioned to bring AFV fire on the tower. I also used the 20L HT's to track down the Mtr's that were setting up to fire on the tower...that 12FP out to 16 hexes kept the mortar boys shucking and jiving.

My opponent had his best results just dropping HE on the tower (whether OBA or ordnance). Once I saw that I started keeping a ? HS on level one. If the level two HS got popped, I would either AM or Advance up the L1 HS and grab the HMG. I tried to keep a rotation between the two HS. It became to much of an investment of assets for the Ami...not only keeping either multiple AFV or Mrt's in place shooting at the tower, but also the dedicated forces to defend/support those firing positions vs other German troops/AFV. The Ami had the balance the effectiveness of a 7FP ROF-3 @ -1/-2 vs the investment to try and take it down AND keep it down.
 

Den589

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I had a HMG w/ -1 leader there every day, but like Steve said, he just WP'd him and he was not very effective for most of the days. The graveyard plan of putting a tank hull down, was nullified the numerous 60* mortars that the American gets. He had at the end something like 8 mortars firing from foxholes on the hillock. I was scared to put a tank back in the graveyard due to the fear that eventually he will either get a crit or just roll low enough on an effect to kill the tank. Losing a Panther to a 60* mortar is not very appealing to me.

Steve did have great luck with WP and normal smoke (not his normal luck with smoke). Monday, on his turn 4 I think I had to flip over 6 or 7 smoke/WP counters. All the bazookas, mortars and M4's just give him lots of opportunities to smoke any long range Germans (such as the steeple or graveyard defense). The graveyard is nearly impossible to hold to any determined attack. In the future I'd put two guns over there. A 75L AT and a 20L AA in orchard hexes and hope the mortars don't tear them up too bad if you have to reveal them.

The mortars must be set up on that hillock in my opinion if you are the American. Just plink away at the graveyard until you get an opening.
 

Vinnie

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One of the best parts of this CG is both sides have to attack and defend.

If you simply hunker down as the US then you will lose, you need to be flexible enough to counter attack when the opportunity presents itself.
The HMG steeple combo is nasty but with the sheer number of 60mm Mortars you get, he should be smoked in every turn. By day 3 we had 8 in operation and unless the HMG goes on a rof tear, you are going to get him WP’d in. Okay, its only +2 but you can pile more than one onto him.
 

Tater

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One of the best parts of this CG is both sides have to attack and defend.

If you simply hunker down as the US then you will lose, you need to be flexible enough to counter attack when the opportunity presents itself.
The HMG steeple combo is nasty but with the sheer number of 60mm Mortars you get, he should be smoked in every turn. By day 3 we had 8 in operation and unless the HMG goes on a rof tear, you are going to get him WP’d in. Okay, its only +2 but you can pile more than one onto him.
Maybe it was just me but, I never gave the Ami enough space/peace to just set up 8 mtrs to fire away unmolested. Also, you start the HS out HIP in the tower.

Let me tell you about fickle smoke...

Played "Black Day In Hatten"...2 Ami mtrs start with a 10WP for their first shot (then drops to 7). I had that plus 2 Zook45 with a 6WP and the 3 TD's with each a 4s. Turn 1...I get 1 WP from a mtr. and 1 WP from a zook...by end of Prep (ordnance smoke), all weapons were out of any s/WP, one mtr was malf and one MA was malf. Then I started regular prep.
🤦‍♂️
 

sdennis

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Let me tell you about fickle smoke...

Played "Black Day In Hatten"...2 Ami mtrs start with a 10WP for their first shot (then drops to 7). I had that plus 2 Zook45 with a 6WP and the 3 TD's with each a 4s. Turn 1...I get 1 WP from a mtr. and 1 WP from a zook...by end of Prep (ordnance smoke), all weapons were out of any s/WP, one mtr was malf and one MA was malf. Then I started regular prep.
🤦‍♂️
Tater, maybe the rest of us are better commanders and give our guys the supplies they need to win the battle? 🆒
 

Gordon

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and at the expense of another.
It would depend on what you think a special ammo depletion represents. In a typical load of ammunition it might only require sacrificing a couple of AP rounds to materially effect the SA depletion number. Not enough to change the AP to a depletion number.
 
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