Hatten #8 Fahrenheit 352 AAR

davegin

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Ok, we're back.
This is the continuation of Kevin Killeen and my playings of the Hatten scenarios. (I have skipped #6 and 7 as I played them at ASLOK, more later).
I will preface this AAR with the fact that Kevin and I didn't necessarily agree with the final analysis. Kevin felt that his attack was less than perfect and that die rolls played a significant role in the outcome. He thinks that the American force can win this upon further playing.
Kevins attack came mainly on the German left as I believe his motive was to sweep from his right, block a swift German turn1/2 entry to the VC areas, and take the VC building on the German left. He didn't realize that he needed to get a GO MMC in both the VC buildings. I do not think that this made any difference.
My defense from the start was predicated on entering the two JgPz38(t)f on turn one with six MP and leave in motion so that on turn 2, I could crash them into the back two hexes of the VC building on the German left. I had the initial screening force in the forward two hexes and foxholes in front of this building. I had rubbled the two forward wood buildings on the right side of the defense and the two forward hexes of the right side VC building and defended with a scattering of squads. I used the Psk w/2-4-7 in a foxhole on the left flank to inhibit his AFVs from blitzing around my left flank. It stopped one Sherman cold and the others became too cautious. On turn two, I was able to CX the reinforcements almost all the way into the VC building and had both flame tanks in the back two VC building hexes, both bogged, but who cared. The two PzIVs then took up position to prohibit the American reinforcement tanks from getting around to my rear and taking shots at the Pz38s in their rear facings in the buildings. I lost one PzIV trying to improve his position on a great shot by Kevin through three orchards but his brother killed 2 shermans that attempted to flush him out of position.
Kevins infantry was right up and adjacent to the VC building on my left by the halfway point but anybody trying to enter the VC hexes would face both the 30 flat from the tanks and 36 columns from the infantry. This also applied to the stone building hexes adjacent to the VC building. Once those two Pz38ts are in those two hexes, it will be near impossible to get an MMC in a victory hex. The building on the right with the two forward hexes rubbled allows the German to sit concealed in the rear two hexes and just blast the American if he enters a rubble hex. Not as great a shot as the other building but still effective and even if the US unit survives, he still needs the "impossible dream" building occupied.
I believe this type of defense pretty much ensures the defenders victory, even though Kev disagrees. I will agree that Kev could have used his smoke mortars a little better and might have been better off diversifying his attack a little, but with those two Pz38ts in that building and having to get adjacent to affect the german infantry, I believe the outcome will not change much.
As for #6 and #7 at ASLOK, I won as the defender in #6 and lost as the attacker in #7. This simply reinforces my opinion that first playings of all the Hatten scenarios will favor the defender. I still think that, other than #8, history will prove out to show an even balance.
This is a wonderful set of scenarios. My compliments to Andy Rogers et al in the design and structure of this HASL. I look forward to playing more of them as the attacker, but in tournament play, I will still bid the defense.
Now on to the new FrF and DFT packs. BTW: Played FRF98, Amerikanskaya Suka yesterday and all I can say is "what a gas". This was one of the most enjoyable scenarios I have played in a long time. I highly recommend!!!
Til next time....roll low and game on.....
 

Steven Pleva

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The only issue with that approach is you will lose one of the flame tanks 10/36 of the time and both of them 1/36 of the time. Did I miss an SSR that makes Cellars NA? Otherwise, those numbers make me uncomfortable...
Steve
 

davegin

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The only issue with that approach is you will lose one of the flame tanks 10/36 of the time and both of them 1/36 of the time. Did I miss an SSR that makes Cellars NA? Otherwise, those numbers make me uncomfortable...
Steve
Great point Steve, however, I think it may be worth the risk with all the American AFVs swarming around in this scenario.
 

zgrose

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Great point Steve, however, I think it may be worth the risk with all the American AFVs swarming around in this scenario.
The only flaw I see in the German defense is that the reinforcements enter on Turn 3 and not Turn 1. :) (Edit) or some on Turn 2 via SSR.
 

Vinnie

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The only issue with that approach is you will lose one of the flame tanks 10/36 of the time and both of them 1/36 of the time. Did I miss an SSR that makes Cellars NA? Otherwise, those numbers make me uncomfortable...
Steve
Happened to one of Olli's hetzer. Admittedly it was risk that or a 75mm shot up the backside.
 

davegin

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The only flaw I see in the German defense is that the reinforcements enter on Turn 3 and not Turn 1. :) (Edit) or some on Turn 2 via SSR.
Yeah, you're right....we played it correctly I just misposted the entry turn... I entered the two hetzers with 6MP on turn two.....
 

Aaron Cleavin

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The only issue with that approach is you will lose one of the flame tanks 10/36 of the time and both of them 1/36 of the time. Did I miss an SSR that makes Cellars NA? Otherwise, those numbers make me uncomfortable...
Steve
If you do the Crash as a platoon I think It is only losing 1 1 in 6 and both 1/36?

There i an interesting gap in the rules in that it says that if there is a bog one does RS to see which tank is bogged, If the tanks Don't Bog but roll a 6 on the colored dr of the Bog check DR it is unclear if this RS applies or if both tanks are cellared. Even Bruce P is not 100% sure on this one. (One of two Perry Sez I need to submit)
 

jrv

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If you do the Crash as a platoon I think It is only losing 1 1 in 6 and both 1/36?

There i an interesting gap in the rules in that it says that if there is a bog one does RS to see which tank is bogged, If the tanks Don't Bog but roll a 6 on the colored dr of the Bog check DR it is unclear if this RS applies or if both tanks are cellared. Even Bruce P is not 100% sure on this one. (One of two Perry Sez I need to submit)
The two victory building hexes are four hexes apart, so in order to get into both as a platoon you'd have to get a bog in one hex, which would allow the remaining vehicle to enter the other. That would, I think, make the chances smaller, although I have not figured out the odds.

Assuming that RS applies to the platoon for cellaring the odds of exactly one tank cellaring is five in thirty-six and the odds that both tanks cellar is one in thirty-six. This is slightly better than if they try separately, but the two hexes would have to be entered at the same time. If, as in the current case, the hexes have to be entered at different times, the best you can do is the same as non-platoon movement, and I think because you need to generate a bog it is worse to use platoon movement.

JR
 

davegin

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The two victory building hexes are four hexes apart, so in order to get into both as a platoon you'd have to get a bog in one hex, which would allow the remaining vehicle to enter the other. That would, I think, make the chances smaller, although I have not figured out the odds.

Assuming that RS applies to the platoon for cellaring the odds of exactly one tank cellaring is five in thirty-six and the odds that both tanks cellar is one in thirty-six. This is slightly better than if they try separately, but the two hexes would have to be entered at the same time. If, as in the current case, the hexes have to be entered at different times, the best you can do is the same as non-platoon movement, and I think because you need to generate a bog it is worse to use platoon movement.

JR
I was crashing into only the building on the left flank, therefore, the hexes entered are adjacent and could easily be entered with platoon movement. I didn't think about this and would be interested to know if the RS on the bog would also apply to the cellaring.
 

zgrose

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Re bogging in the building, doesn’t this just invite the American AFV to envelope and destroy them easier?

While I also used the flame tanks in close support, it’s trivially easy for the US to interdict the reinforcement route with what should be a fairly standard two-prong US attack.
 
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