Has ASL evolution left behind "ART" pieces, like 10-3s?

[62nd Army]

Gentlemen

It seems to me that artillery (ART) pieces in scenarios have been left behind by the evolution of ASL, that is scenario design and playing style. Maybe this is just an observation that bears no real truth by me, but I cant remember that last time I used an artillery piece or had one used against me in a scenario.

It seems to me that ART pieces are now like 10-3 SMCs, fondly remember, but simple not used anymore in scenarios.

What do others think on this?

Long live 10-3s and ART pieces

Regards
Joe

 

[John_McDiarmid]

You see Russian 82* Art guns once in a while.

10-3 leaders pretty rare unless an uncommon 10-2 battle hardens (then gets hit by a sniper)

 

[M.Koch]

J185 "The Haunted Castle" and J193 "Raff´s Rules" have ART in use

No Artilleryman wants to see the white in the eyes of the enemy, btw :wtf:

 

[jrv]

No Artilleryman wants to see the white in the eyes of the enemy, btw :wtf:

The Japanese and the Soviets used their ART weapons in direct fire roles. For other armies it was not generally doctrine (with some exceptions, e.g. the British 25-pounder used as ATG in the desert, the occasional large piece brought in for a tough target, and/or light/medium guns), and the appearance of what are classed as ART weapons in ASL indicates something has gone wrong.

JR

 

[Martin Mayers]

Russian 76L ART is used pretty frequently but don't see much else used.

I was inventorying all my 5/8" counters for my new storage system and the number of differing pieces blew me away. More striking when you are writing down the name of every piece. And yes, I agree with you, struck me probably one in thirty or forty of those ARTY pieces get used.

 

[Gunner Scott]

I think the 62nd army guy only plays official stuff and there aint alot of official scenarios with heavy art pieces other then HASL's. But there is BFP's CoS which has a ton of scenarios with heavy art pieces. Granted it is not official but it is fun and well playtested.

edit: OtO has a ton of scenarios with large caliber ART pieces also.

 

[Vinnie]

Large calibre ART should not be around that much. If your artillery park can be fired on by rifles...you're in a bad position!

The Soviet 76L appears regularly, so often that you will see people routinely sticking it in a building forgetting it is not an INF or AT and not small so can't go in there.

You'll see mobile arty more often than towed as the Allies used them in direct fire roles more often. They did not take quite so long to set up.

 

[olli]

Russian 76L ART is used pretty frequently but don't see much else used.

I was inventorying all my 5/8" counters for my new storage system and the number of differing pieces blew me away. More striking when you are writing down the name of every piece. And yes, I agree with you, struck me probably one in thirty or forty of those ARTY pieces get used.

Yes

 

[olli]

Having done all the counter tabs for my storage system Martin I have to agree on the amount of Vehicles, guns boats and plane counters is enormous.

 

[klasmalmstrom]

The latest ASL Journal #12 had two scenarios with ART pieces, btw.

 

[rwphillipsstl]

Could artillery be worked back into the scenario mix by using them more as objectives to silence/capture if not used as direct participants? At least you could pull out the counters once in a while.

 

[Michael Dorosh]

Russian artillery was often used in an anti-tank role, hence their use in ASL scenarios.

Ian Daglish did at least one scenario (in the Normandy pack I think) of a British 25-pdr battery in direct contact. But as M. Koch notes, generally speaking, you didn't see artillery used anywhere near the MLR/HKL etc. The use of the 25-pdr in North Africa as an expedient anti-tank gun is notable for the rarity in which it happened - and the unique circumstances of the war in the desert.

Lack of on-board indirect fire rules for artillery (as in the original SL) probably account for this as well. Still remember those 105s on the Road to Wiltz.

 

[Michael Dorosh]

Could artillery be worked back into the scenario mix by using them more as objectives to silence/capture if not used as direct participants? At least you could pull out the counters once in a while.

I believe there are one or two versions of the Brecourt Manor assault out there, probably the most famous such instance of a ground assault on an emplaced artillery battery.

 

[rwphillipsstl]

That was what made me think of that, because I have been re-watching Band Of Brothers this last week.

 

[Robin Reeve]

There was a scenario in an ASL Annual, I think, where Canadiens in the Dieppe assault had to capture/destroy big German guns (which were not able to fire directly, IIRC).
So there are some scenarios with heavy artillery on board, but they indeed are quite rare.

 

[klasmalmstrom]

There was a scenario in an ASL Annual, I think, where Canadiens in the Dieppe assault had to capture/destroy big German guns (which were not able to fire directly, IIRC).
So there are some scenarios with heavy artillery on board, but they indeed are quite rare.

Yes, "A Day By The Shore",IIRC - personally I would take a long detour around that scenario.

 

[Vinnie]

Was this not originally a CoD scenario featuring Commandoes? I recall it saying that it was the only part of the landing that went to plan.

 

[Michael Dorosh]

Was this not originally a CoD scenario featuring Commandoes? I recall it saying that it was the only part of the landing that went to plan.

You're on fire, Vinnie, correct on all counts. It may have been one of the Series 200 scenarios? Don't have my binder handy.

Though my website lists COMMANDO RAID AT DIEPPE in the 200 series. http://tacticalwargamer.com/boardgames/squadleader/squadleaderscenarios.htm

Later reprinted as T13 for ASL in the General 28:3.

http://www.aslscenarioarchive.com/scenario.php?id=56634

Link to the Archive version above.

 

[Robin Reeve]

Yes, "A Day By The Shore",IIRC - personally I would take a long detour around that scenario.

It is indeed very scripted and not the most interesting tactical situation.

 

[Craig Benn]

Never mind the arty, getting rid of 10-3's would improve the game. I would never voluntarily choose a scenario with one in.