Harpoon Scenarios Using the HUD-4 Database

[Mgellis]

Hi folks,

This thread is for discussing Harpoon scenarios using the HUD-4 database, the official database of Harpoon ANW Ultimate Edition.

The HUD-4 can be found at Harpgamer. Here is the link…

http://harpgamer.com/harpforum/index.php?/files/category/4-databases/

Along with all the scenarios released with the newest edition of Harpoon, many original scenarios are available for the HUD-4. These can be downloaded from the Harpgamer site. I am hoping people will try them out and that we will see lots of After Action Reports posted here. In fact, I am hoping to get more people interested in writing their own scenarios using the HUD-4, and will be happy to discuss ideas, techniques, etc.

I’m not the database editor—I just like to write scenarios with the HUD-4—but if you try out some of the scenarios and spot any database issues, please let me know and I’ll post the information on Harpgamer so that Gunny, the database editor, will see your feedback and can address the issues. Or, if you prefer, you can just post the information on Harpgamer yourself.

I look forward to our conversations.

 

[Mgellis]

Along with posting various scenarios, I've put together a series of tables for randomly generating scenario ideas. You can find it here...

http://harpgamer.com/harpforum/index.php?/topic/20295-uncle-marks-amazing-scenario-design-system/

Enjoy!

 

[Herman Hum]

I see that the HUD is still plagued with bugs and unable to fire even the most simple weapons.

Database issue...Maverick problems
http://harpgamer.com/harpforum/index.php?/topic/20158-database-issuemaverick-problems/

 

[Mgellis]

I see that the HUD is still plagued with bugs and unable to fire even the most simple weapons.[/url]

This is simply untrue. This is exactly what has happened on other forums in the past, so I am going to nip it in the bud right here.

It is unfortunate that Herman is so biased against the HUD-4 that he cannot discuss it objectively. He often cannot even discuss it in a civil manner. His frequent bad behavior is one reason why he has been banned from a number of forums, including Harpgamer, and was recently cautioned by a moderator on CombatSim. I honestly am not sure what motivates him to behave this way, although I suspect that, as the creator of the Players Database, it is hard for him to be objective about other databases and he feels slighted that the HUD-4 was selected as the official database for ANW.

I recommend that people simply Ignore his comments, try out the HUD-4 and the scenarios written for it for themselves, or try writing their own, and make their own decisions.

And, if you do find database issues, please contact Gunny (the database editor for the HUD-4) on Harpgamer so he can address them. A few issues do exist, but the vast majority of the roughly two thousand weapons and platforms on the HUD-4 work fine; I wouldn't be able to complete the scenarios I write with it if that wasn't true! The one about the Mavericks, by the way, has already been reported and has actually been partly resolved...see http://harpgamer.com/harpforum/index.php?/topic/20579-newest-hud-4-update-on-issues-feb-24/ for details.

 

[Herman Hum]

This is simply untrue. This is exactly what has happened on other forums in the past, so I am going to nip it in the bud right here.

Actually, it is true and it is better to expose your dishonesty immediately. Since the bug report is in your own words, you cannot hide the incredible bugginess of the HUD. I am simply better at exposing HUD bugs and Francois Guerin's incompetence than you are at hiding it.

Error Report...AIM-7C and AIM-7E will not fire
http://harpgamer.com/harpforum/index.php?/topic/19625-error-reportaim-7c-and-aim-7e-will-not-fire/

The fact that you need post all over the internet to beg and plead for someone (anyone) to try your scenarios and HUD is simply proof that no one wants anything to do with either you or the HUD.

I am sure that you will try to silence your critics, once again, by reporting this message as a 'Bad Post' simply because it disagrees with you.

 

[Mgellis]

I don't want my disagreements with Herman to poison this discussion so I have put him on my Ignore list.

 

[Mgellis]

Here is the link to the list of scenarios written for the HUD-4.

http://harpgamer.com/harpforum/index.php?/files/category/13-scenarios/

Enjoy!

 

[Herman Hum]

As always, I want to thank you for the opportunity to showcase the bugginess and dysfunction of HUD. Every time you appear, it is a golden opportunity to shine the spotlight, once again, on HUD problems. Without you, they might have gone unnoticed.

You can try to ignore the problems all you like. The fact that you are begging and pleading for someone to play your scenarios underlies the fact that no one will lift a finger and try them (except me). I suspect that you are angry that you decided to use the HUD and now find yourself in the unpleasant predicament that no one will try them because of the notorious problems found within the HUD.

Repeatedly bashing your head against the same problem in virtually every scenario is probably the reason why the number of folks willing to try an HUD scenario is almost non-existent. When you constantly run into problems like those found in:

Celebes Sea Slam

[video=youtube;rNWWMbbpRg0]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rNWWMbbpRg0[/video]

The best advice for getting someone to try your scenario is to simply make it work. Players are not guinea pigs and their free time is valuable. You only need to experience these bugs once before most folks will ignore your works forever.

 

[Mgellis]

This message is hidden because Herman Hum is on your ignore list.

 

[Herman Hum]

This message is hidden because Herman Hum is on your ignore list.

How pathetically juvenile. You want to ignore the only person who even bothers to load and talk about your bug-infested scenarios and database? That's fine. Just do it. I'm sure that there are plenty of others who listen because they value their time and appreciate not having it wasted trying to play scenarios where the weapons will not fire.

Of course, there are others who see your conduct for what it is. Just because someone refuses to agree with you or doesn't post an opinion you like, they get ignored. Welcome to the real world. And you still wonder why no one bothers to play your scenarios? It's your childish behaviour as much as the bug-infested scenarios/database.

 

[FreekS]

Herman,

Please represent the facts. The fact is that not only is the PDB far superior to HUD4, but also the dtabase owner is more open to fixing issues. Poor Mark cannot help that, but he could make his scens themselves a bit better so they come close to the quality of the PDB scenarios. This last fact is probably not due to your research skills, which are mediocre at best, but to your skills in writing scenario missions that make the AI so strong.

But dont blame Mark,
When i read a thread in hargamer discussing if multiplayer Is at all possible, I realised that the HUD crowed really have very little experience with really playing H3/ANW/HUE, due to a lack of players, and how can you build a good DB or scen without player experience?

Freek

 

[FreekS]

Herman,

Please represent the facts. The fact is that not only is the PDB far superior to HUD4, but also the dtabase owner is more open to fixing issues. Poor Mark cannot help that, but he could make his scens themselves a bit better so they come close to the quality of the PDB scenarios. This last fact is probably not due to your research skills, which are mediocre at best, but to your skills in writing scenario missions that make the AI so strong.

But dont blame Mark,
When i read a thread in hargamer discussing if multiplayer Is at all possible, I realised that the HUD crowd really have very little experience with actually playing H3/ANW/HUE, and due to a lack of players, how can they build a good DB or scen without player experience?

Freek

 

[Herman Hum]

Please represent the facts. The fact is that not only is the PDB far superior to HUD4,

I cannot completely agree with that statement because comparisons such as 'better/worse' are always subjective. The only thing that can be definitively proven is that in the PlayersDB, all the weapons fire, all the ships move, and all the weapons hit. These three fundamental qualities are conspicuously absent from the HUD.

Poor Mark cannot help that, but he could make his scens themselves a bit better so they come close to the quality of the PDB scenarios.

Again, I cannot agree. Mark could fix his scenarios and make them functional. He simply chooses not to do so. That is certainly his prerogative. There are plenty of things a scenario author can do even when he wants to try writing scenarios with a bug-infested mess such as the HUD. It is simply more difficult due to need to avoid the tremendous number of bugs found within the HUD.

Celebes Sea Slam

For example, since Francois Guerin is too incompetent to find the real reason why the PS 35 Emilio Jacinto cannot move and fix it, the scenario author is forced to find a ship that can actually move and substitute it for the Jacinto. This is what was actually done. However, the fact that the Jacinto still cannot move remains within the HUD (even if a single author has avoided it.) That's just what an author needs to do when using something as buggy as the HUD. Write the scenario and remove all the ships, aircraft, and weapons that don't move, fire, or work. It isn't impossible, but there's no other way around the HUD bugs.

But dont blame Mark, When i read a thread in hargamer discussing if multiplayer Is at all possible, I realised that the HUD crowed really have very little experience with really playing H3/ANW/HUE, due to a lack of players, and how can you build a good DB or scen without player experience?

The first thing you would need is a functional database, thus immediately excluding the HUD. The only time I ever knew of the HUD being used for MP was when it was first released. Back in 2007, the PlayersDB MP server had gone down so a bunch of us [3] thought, "let's try the HUD3 while it is being fixed." Afterwards, my opponents said that they would rather NOT have played at all if they had known how bad the HUD3 was. We all agreed that it would be preferable to sit around and stare at the wall than use HUD3 in the future. The experience was that bad.

Now, use of the HUD4 isn't even an option because it is only available for HUE v3.10 and that game version crashes as soon as you try to log into the MP lobby! Since there isn't an HUD4 version available for ANW v3.9.4, the whole notion is a non-starter because ANW is the only version that even allows the most minimal MP function.

 

[Mgellis]

Freek,

Thanks for your comments. What recommendations do you have?

Mark

 

[Mgellis]

Freek,

Thanks for your comments. I'm not sure I agree with all of them, but I appreciate the effort.

More important, what recommendations do you have for improving scenarios?

Mark

 

[Herman Hum]

Thanks for your comments. What recommendations do you have?

The usual: make your scenarios work. You aren't going to get a better response. If you wish to ignore the obvious, that is your prerogative. Just realize that so long as your scenarios remain non-functional, the number of players willing to try your them will remain at virtually zero.

 

[Mgellis]

Speaking of the HUD-4, by the way, it was recently updated. The newest version, posted on Harpgamer on Feb. 24, can be found here...

http://harpgamer.com/harpforum/index.php?/files/file/780-hud4-v111/

How would I rate the HUD-4? Honestly? About an 8 out of 10. It's a good database. There's room for improvement, but it's a good database. I have fun playing Harpoon with it, and writing scenarios with it, and I think other people will, too.

And, of course, it's not like you have to choose one or the other. One nice thing about ANW is that you can load as many databases on your computer as you like.

I use the HUD-4 because I happen to prefer it. But that does not prove anything; it just means I happen to prefer the HUD-4. That's why I say people should try it out for themselves. Play a few scenarios. Write a few scenarios. To be honest, after all the fussing some people have done, I don't think many players will see many differences between the HUD-4 and other databases. But if you spot any issues, please help make better the HUD-4 better by reporting them to Gunny, the database editor, on Harpgamer.

 

[Herman Hum]

Speaking of the HUD-4, by the way, it was recently updated.

Unfortunately, the same problems persist such as:

Celebes Sea Slam

That's why I say people should try it out for themselves. Play a few scenarios. Write a few scenarios.

You are free to your opinion, but the HUD has already been shown (in your own words, even!) to be quite thoroughly a bug-infested mess. If players want to subject themselves to the same frustrations and bugs already reported, they are certainly free to do so. However, no one should fool themselves into thinking that they can actually avoid the HUD bugs. There are simply too many of them.

Database issue...Maverick problems
http://harpgamer.com/harpforum/index.php?/topic/20158-database-issuemaverick-problems/

To be honest, after all the fussing some people have done, I don't think many players will see many differences between the HUD-4 and other databases.

To be honest, folks will see the difference immediately between databases such as the PlayersDB and the HUD. If anyone actually wants to try an HUD scenario to compare, it would be a very good idea to play a scenario with the PlayersDB first so that one can see what happens when all the weapons fire, all the units move, and all the weapons hit. Establishing a functional baseline is always the best first step.

 

[Mgellis]

Oh, and what I originally meant to tell people, before getting distracted, was that I've posted a new scenario at Harpgamer, Mission to Macedonia (2018). You can find it here...

http://harpgamer.com/harpforum/index.php?/files/file/802-mission-to-macedonia-2018/

Enjoy!

 

[Herman Hum]

Oh, and what I originally meant to tell people, before getting distracted, was that I've posted a new scenario at Harpgamer, Mission to Macedonia (2018).

Already tried it.

I see that this bug persists in the HUD and has not been corrected:

Error Report...AIM-7C and AIM-7E will not fire
http://harpgamer.com/harpforum/index.php?/topic/19625-error-reportaim-7c-and-aim-7e-will-not-fire/