Harpoon 4 Cancelled

[Jim Cobb]

I hate for my first post to be a downer but people who pre-ordered Harpoon 4 from Amazon.com received at e-mail saying the game was cancelled. Hardly a surprise given the change- over in design teams and Ubisoft's ambiguious support of wargames.

Never fear! We still have Harpoon Classic 2003 Gold and PC Harpoon 3.

 

[Jim Cobb]

Confusion abounds on this. I'll report back.

 

[Jim Cobb]

Either a false alarm or insight into the future. Release date is now 2/15/04,

 

[Jim Cobb]

I was right the first time; it;s dead.

 

[Mantis]

DOH!

There's going to be alot of Harpooners upset about this one...

More vapourware! DAMN! Any chance it'll be picked up?

 

[Jim Cobb]

Only some wishful thinking. Ubi may release the code. The question I have is how much better would H4 be compared to expansions and addons to PC H3 and HC 2002 Gold. Frankly, I feel a lack of directions from gamers about what significany gameplay features they want that couldn't be added to the above products. other than whiz-bang graphics.

 

[Dr Zaius]

Is there any chance another publisher will pick it up and continue with Harpoon 4?

 

[CV32]

No, I don't think so. Most expectations now lie with a Harpoon version that will more or less substitute for Harpoon 4. It is presently being referred to as "The Next Harpoon" (TNH), and will probably combine the best features of Harpoon Classic and Harpoon 3 into one sim.

 

[Sunburn]

Work on TNH is already underway. Alot of the work being done for the current versions of HC and H3 is going to be carried over to the next version(s).

 

[Dr Zaius]

Does Harpoon Classic actually have some advantages over Harpoon III? If so, what?

 

[Sunburn]

This is an extremely touchy question, as both products have a very fanatical following (aside from those who play both). Numerous flame wars have erupted in the past, originating from this question. For this reason, it is generally avoided by the community to publicly compare these two against each other. For the public record, I will state that it mostly comes down to personal taste. There are demos available for both versions, so everyone can try them both and make his own judgement.

Those who are interested in my personal opinion can of course contact me through e-mail.

 

[Dr Zaius]

I understand your position and I appreciate your candor in the matter. We have no desire to start some kind of flame war here. Having said that, WHQ is a wargaming club. It is run by wargamers, for wargamers, for the benefit of the wargaming community. We debate very touchy subjects in our political forums all the time. While these debates often generate passionate responses, that does not invalidate the concept behind people with an interest in the subject matter talking it over.

Whatever bad blood or feuds may have taken place elsewhere in the Harpoon community, they are not part of this community. At WHQ wargamers are free to discuss wargames and their opinions on them. Of course, not everyone will agree with another wargamer's opinions, however, they don't need to as long as they follow the forum guidelines when debating people they disagree with. As long as you act like an adult here and refrain from attacking other members, members are free to fully discuss all aspects of a game.

Let me be clear: I am not encouraging anyone to debate or unfavorably contrast any aspects of any wargame if they do not wish to do so. I am simply saying WHQ has no hidden agenda here whatsoever. This is a place for wargamers to talk about wargames. We're all adults here and as long as people act like it, I don't forsee any problems.

 

[Herman Hum]

Let me be clear: I am not encouraging anyone to debate or unfavorably contrast any aspects of any wargame if they do not wish to do so. I am simply saying WHQ has no hidden agenda here whatsoever. This is a place for wargamers to talk about wargames. We're all adults here and as long as people act like it, I don't forsee any problems.

Does Harpoon Classic actually have some advantages over Harpoon III? If so, what?

I feel that I have been able to help some folks with these types of questions in the past without stirring up too much controversy so I will try to answer both of these messages. Firstly, I don't like to use words like better/worse, superior/inferior, primitive/advanced, or good/bad because they connote a judgement of quality or preference. Suffice it to say that both games are enjoyable, both try to simulate modern naval / aerial warfare, and both games work.

The best example might be to compare American Football to Canadian Football. Fundamentally, both are enjoyable games with the same basic concepts. Many of the positions, skills, plays, tactics, etc. are exactly the same. However, the rules for each are quite different as are strategies, plays, tactics. Neither is 'better' nor worse than the other. I could go on for pages describing their differences.

This is the same for Harpoon Classic version and the Harpoon3 version. I could describe in detail how I think that each of the different versions attempts to simulate sonar, AI behaviour, ESM, AAW, SAMs,..... but it is probably easier if specific questions are asked. i.e. regarding C&C issues, displays, ECM, AAMs, torpedoes, Databases,...

For example, it is possible to pause the game in Harpoon3 and issue orders before re-starting the game clock. This function is absent from the Harpoon Classic version. Is this good or bad? Some might say that the function is realistic/unrealistic but that is for the player to decide. I will simply tell you that it is available. You don't have to use it.

I think that this is the best way to discuss the different versions. As Joe Friday would say in television series, Dragnet, "The facts, ma'am. Just the facts."

So, if you could focus your questions just a little bit, I think that this can be a very productive discussion.

 

[Hellfish6]

You guys ever seen this? Global Conflict Blue

 

[Herman Hum]

I've only scanned their site. It looks very inviting, though.

There's also some gentlemen working on another simulation at: http://www.stratsims.net/cic.asp

And, there is Mnemonic Games (www.mnemonicgames.com) who are proposing another Naval Sim.

All three sound promising but I think that the GC Blue is the most developed thus far.

 

[Marines]

I thought the code was to be released to the community.

 

[Herman Hum]

The Semi-Open Source code was a long hoped-for release but, IIRC, this is no longer a possibility. I think that I read it on the AGSI forum but I may be wrong.

I am 99% certain of this but anyone who needs know for a certainty, can contact AGSI at http://www.advancedgaming.biz/

 

[Sunburn]

We had covered Global Conflict on a Waypoint article, which included an interview with the lead developer. You can read it here:
http://www.harpoonhq.com/waypoint/waypoint_2003_04_05.zip

 

[Marines]

The Semi-Open Source code was a long hoped-for release but, IIRC, this is no longer a possibility. I think that I read it on the AGSI forum but I may be wrong.

I am 99% certain of this but anyone who needs know for a certainty, can contact AGSI at http://www.advancedgaming.biz/

I thought it was up to Larry as to whether or not to release the build in its current state?

 

[Herman Hum]

The President of Advanced Gaming Systems, Inc. is Don Gilman and all decisions related to computer Harpoon are at his discretion.